Does ANYONE here like Shiho Munakata?

Highman wrote:Maybe I'm wrong but some other forum mentioned about Q&A interview with Obara-san saying he dislike Shiho for some reason or other way around he may like her, then again trolling can happen to all of us.

Maybe, but I'll just go ahead and call trolling. Why would they make a character they weren't satisfied with from the start? If anything, they should of done everything in their power to promote Shiho's character. O_o;

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:

Highman wrote:Maybe I'm wrong but some other forum mentioned about Q&A interview with Obara-san saying he dislike Shiho for some reason or other way around he may like her, then again trolling can happen to all of us.

Maybe, but I'll just go ahead and call trolling. Why would they make a character they weren't satisfied with from the start? If anything, they should of done everything in their power to promote Shiho's character. O_o;

One word: popularity polls by our fellow fans and I mean Sunrise would take it but only for a grain of salt.

Sunrise likes Shiho and that's a fact.

Highman wrote:One word: popularity polls by our fellow fans and I mean Sunrise would take it but only for a grain of salt.

Sunrise likes Shiho and that's a fact.

If only those popularity polls were strong enough to give birth to a ShizNat OVA series.

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:

Highman wrote:One word: popularity polls by our fellow fans and I mean Sunrise would take it but only for a grain of salt.

Sunrise likes Shiho and that's a fact.

If only those popularity polls were strong enough to give birth to a ShizNat OVA series.

Or a MaiReito OVA series

Highman wrote:

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:

Highman wrote:One word: popularity polls by our fellow fans and I mean Sunrise would take it but only for a grain of salt.

Sunrise likes Shiho and that's a fact.

If only those popularity polls were strong enough to give birth to a ShizNat OVA series.

Or a MaiReito OVA series

why not its not like Sunrise is ever going to do anything nice to Yuuichi ever again.

hildebrant wrote:

Highman wrote:

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:

Highman wrote:One word: popularity polls by our fellow fans and I mean Sunrise would take it but only for a grain of salt.

Sunrise likes Shiho and that's a fact.

If only those popularity polls were strong enough to give birth to a ShizNat OVA series.

Or a MaiReito OVA series

why not its not like Sunrise is ever going to do anything nice to Yuuichi ever again.

Through Sunrise past with seiyuu, sometimes being dicks can really hurt you reputation and seiyuu's as well. It's man eat dog world in the anime business, Tate seiyuu and some others take too much and that when the line was crossed. Sunrise did right thing but should replace the with another seiyuu. Don't think Sunrise isn't done with Tate yet, I do see him as a pain in Mai thorn or rekindle Shiho relationship, not as saying it could be true but AS IF Sunrise will forgive him.

Kiros Razer wrote:I didn't like her and I found her rather annoying.

Guess some of Mai fans who hate Shiho have Oni-chan Complex's in their natural lives :D :D

Don't worry about going off subject, Kiros. You kinda needed to explain yourself there.

Highly agree with you on the trust part. It's not an easy thing to earn or give to be honest. In Shiho's case, the only person she can really trust is Tate. Mai broke that trust unintentionally.

Shiho. Things happen. Get over yourself.

*BUMP!*

Get ready for some bluster. I'm having my two-penneth worth (which is more rambling, more error-strewn and will annoy you far more than this).


How can you not feel sorry for this? SHAME ON YOU!!!

I actually feel sorry for Shiho. For a kick off, the defining element of her character in the anime is of course her relationship with Yuuichi. Her actions are increasingly governed by her desire to maintain this. When she first arrived in the Fuuka area, separated from her parents, he (along with his two frogs, one for each hair colour, which he declined to put down the back of her clothing) was the first person to befriend her, leaving her with a debt of gratitude which she was able to repay by standing by him when he went off the rails after his kendo-related knee knack. Eventually, as she grows up, it becomes obvious that she's so deeply in love with him she's struggling not to drown. Of course, despite his best efforts, Yuuichi seems unable to reciprocate in any meaningful way.

There are a couple of clues which suggest that Shiho knows full well that she's just not his type: when they first meet Mai, she teases Tate with his fondness for busomy girls, whilst, during the Tamayura, Yuuichi makes an off-hand comment that Shiho is still like a child, having witnessed her giving names to two fish he's won for her. However well-meaning his comments may have been, Shiho's reaction is one of alarm, insisting that she's becoming a woman and imploring him to kiss her.

Despite this hiccup, she seems to have won the heart of her man after she is injured during the Searrs' invasion, with Yuuichi maintaining an almost-constant presence at her hospital bedside. Yuuichi, however, is as epically wangsty as ever, constantly brooding on the situation. Which begs the question: could he not have made it clearer that his feelings for Shiho are those of more akin to those of an older brother for his younger sister than to those a lover has towards his belle? If their relationship were to proceed, there would inevitably come a day when Yuuichi's latent resentment boiled over, when he would state plainly that he was only dating her in the belief that it was the right thing to do. Effectively, by pandering to her in this manner, he sets himself up to tell her that he's doing her a favour and that he's come to despise her as the immovable obstacle which blocked his path to romance with Mai. Relationship - and hope of a fruitful friendship - pretty much ruined. I don't want to sound like I'm kicking Tate (easy target), especially when he is ostensibly trying to do the right thing (and, by this stage, he appears to have lost out on Mai to Reito) but a clarification wouldn't have gone amiss and would've spared Shiho the heartache of Yuuichi's no-show in the children's playground which presages her final attack on Mai. Shiho probably wouldn't have accepted such a rejection at first, though it would've been clear how the land lay and might have taken the edge off her subsequent clingyness and would probably afford a better chance to safeguard their friendship in the long term.

Instead, she's left to hope that her feelings for Yuuichi are started to be reciprocated - whilst he only seems to be paying such dutiful attention to her because he feels guilty for having left her at the mercy of the Orphans during the battle. It's highly likely that, in spite of Yuuichi's report that he'd been informed she may never walk again, Shiho is milking her injuries in order to maintain his presence, whilst she goes without sleep to knit him a scarf like a dutiful yamato nadeshiko in training. Of course, her plan to present it to him goes awry as, instead of meeting her in the children's play area as promised (and on the anniversary of the day they first met), Tate instead heads off in search of Mai, turning up at the church just in time to witness Yukariko's grizzly self-immolation. Not one to pass up an opportunity to make an unwanted appearance, everyone's favourite white-haired pissant appears to cruelly remind Shiho that her worst fears have been realised: he's not coming. Cue dramatic flying wedding dress entrance...



Ultimately, I feel that Shiho is not so much in love with Yuuichi the person as she is with Yuuichi the ideal, the memory of the young amphibian-bothering scamp who rescued her from loneliness and sorrow. Her actions are, in my view, founded more on her attempting to preserve the blessed memory of the day she net her beau - as much from the vagaries of growing up and growing apart - than on her burgeoning romantic desire for the 15-16-year-old Yuuichi.

With regards to Mai, Shiho does go over the top without a doubt, but she feels betrayed. That, combined with her own probably feelings of inadequacy when faced with a rival more to her love interest's taste, leave her with few other options.



Of course, Mai, in a somewhat blasé manner, allows Shiho to elicit a promise from her to support Shiho in her attempts to woo Yuuichi during their night at the shrine. This is a big deal for Shiho: the promise is made in front of her grandmother's wedding dress, which is intended for her own use when she marries. Their subsequent meetings see Shiho being amiable towards Mai (with an undercurrent of nervousness in my opinion), until the Tamayura episode, when, leaving Shiho to pucker up unilaterally, Yuuichi blurts out Mai's name, rudely interrupting Reito's attempt to face-suck Mai. Of course, Shiho's reaction, placing the blame almost entirely on Mai's shoulders, is bizarre, given that it was Yuuichi who broke off from their own intimate moment to interrupt Mai's. Obviously, she is incensed with Yuuichi (look at her face at the start of the next episode), though she makes Mai the main object of her ire (as seen by her body language during the Searrs attack when she & Yuuichi meet up with Mai & Mikoto), concocting a scenario in which Mai is the temptress leading her beloved astray. I read this as evidence that her misgivings about Yuuichi's romantic commitment to her lead her to project her resentments, born from her own insecurity as well as Tate's obvious ardour for Mai, onto Mai as her major rival. As such, she comes to believe that Mai - in falling for Yuuichi herself, Shiho's greatest fear - has personally betrayed her by going back on what Shiho sees as a solemn vow. Her subsequent targeting of Mai - and her furtiveness - is unpleasant, and without doubt she goes way too far in the monomania stakes but, twisted as it is, it's understandable within the context of her desires.

However, it's hardly Mai's fault that she starts to develop romantic feelings for Yuuichi, especially in light of the kindness he shows her in episode 5, where his curt dismissal of the platitudes Mai has to endure impresses her and causes their previous belligerent sexual tension to mellow. Credit where credit's due: despite his near-constant angst born of his impotence of action, Yuuichi can be a truly nice and deeply perceptive guy. When he's not moping around.

In summary, Shiho feels compelled to enter a competition with Mai which she herself knows deep down she's bound to lose. And, of course, she does.


I am somewhat displeased at this turn of events.

What is also quite interesting with regards to Shiho is her manifestation of some unusual powers associated with her status as a HiME. She initially appears, of course, as a ghostly HiME, clad in the wedding dress, a projection of herself from her hospital bed. In addition, when she reveals herself, as she activates her Element, her hair starts to glow, à la Alissa (probably due to her HiME symbol being on her head?). It's important to note that, as the scion of the family which serves at the shrine, Shiho may have a particular bloodline associated with the HiME Carnival (another dead horse I insist on flogging :3) which could explain some of these abnormalities. Also, there is said to be latent psychic energy which seems to centre upon teenagers, especially teenage girls. Perhaps Shiho's unusual nature stems from this, being somewhat akin to the poltergeist phenomenon, the foci of which are oft times adolescent females according to this. Certainly, her unhealthy obsession with Yuuichi and her belief that Mai has betrayed her would exacerbate any paranormal abilities she might have which are not necessarily related to her HiME status.

Completely irrelevant to this, I love the recurrence of scenes at the children's play area: Yuuichi & Mai; Shiho spotting Mai and having Yuuichi kiss her; and Shiho's heartbreak when she realised that Yuuichi's not coming because he's chosen Mai over her. Another one of those wonderful little details which set the Mai series apart (for me at least).

Anyway, despite all her clinginess and her often deceitful and manipulative behaviour (who'd have imagined that the spiral-crazy Ms. Huit was the sane version???), I still feel sorry for poor Shiho. She doesn't make it easy as she spirals (cue collective groan) out of control, but, hey, that's just the way it is. Call it my power to resist anything apart from a sad juvenile female woobie type. They're my kryptonite! C'mon, I have Nina as my avatar for goodness' sake! They melt my icy, emotionless outer persona and leave a puddle of "awww cuggy-wuggles"-ness in their wake.

Note to Break String SpinSelf: stop now. You're beginning to sound like a creepy knicker-sniffing face-licker.

Plus, why should being a bit stalkerish, obsessive & possessive towards the one you love *ahem*Shizuru*ahem* necessarily make a character unlikeable?

PS sorry for rambling on stating facts everyone knows. The Forum ranks highly on search engines in my experience so I tend to put as much in as possible for casual fans of the show who happen upon these posts. That's my excuse for being an overbearing know-it-all anyway... :3

You did a fantastic job analyzing and defending Shiho to great extents! I'm glad you went the distance with a character very few understand. Can I say with good reason? Not really, considering Shiho's plight was realistically portrayed. This is not including her paranormal HiME abilities brought on by anger and sense of loss.

You made an excellent point about Shiho's painting Yuuichi out to be this knight in shining armor. An image she believed in strongly throughout her years. He was indeed, the older brother type that always looked after her to some extent. I suppose this is why she rubs people the wrong way. To Shiho, Yuuichi's lifelong companionship is proof that they're meant to be together. I know it's hard to believe, folks, but it IS possible for men and women to become FRIENDS. No destined relationship forms just because you were friends all your life. Tate already had his eyes (literally) set on Mai from the day he saw her on the ferry. The more he talked to her about life, the more he felt drawn to her. And no matter how hard Shiho tried to sway him away, it just wasn't going to happen.

Yuuichi also sees Shiho as a child. Remember the festival episode where Shiho showed up in a kimono/yukata? For a second, Tate liked what he saw, under the impression that Shiho was a woman. He snapped out of it quickly, for the simple fact that it's Shiho. She couldn't possibly come off beautiful or womanly. These are the moments I feel sorry for her, and I really mean that.

Thanks for the feedback Luu-sama. I know I've gone over quite a lot of points that feature earlier in this thread as well as in Dye's analysis, but I felt it was important to revisit them as they impact my own thinking.

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:Yuuichi also sees Shiho as a child. Remember the festival episode where Shiho showed up in a kimono/yukata? For a second, Tate liked what he saw, under the impression that Shiho was a woman. He snapped out of it quickly, for the simple fact that it's Shiho. She couldn't possibly come off beautiful or womanly. These are the moments I feel sorry for her, and I really mean that.

Excellent point. Yuuichi's reactions to Shiho towards the end of the evening are even more heartbreaking from her perspective given that she'd earlier been seen psyching herself up, trying to summon the self-confidence to enable her to pull off the "grown-up" look.

Possibly one more thing to add is that Yuuichi's inability to truly imagine Shiho as anything more than a dear friend is rooted in his own memories of hanging around with her when they were both children - the same period in which the seeds of Shiho's obsessive love for him were sown. She's the slightly-annoying younger sister that he never had and his attempts to entertain her and keep her happy, such as the frog incident, are evidence that he cares deeply for her. It's just unfortunate for Shiho that Yuuichi's expectations of the relationship don't match her own.

Break String SpinElf wrote:
Possibly one more thing to add is that Yuuichi's inability to truly imagine Shiho as anything more than a dear friend is rooted in his own memories of hanging around with her when they were both children - the same period in which the seeds of Shiho's obsessive love for him were sown. She's the slightly-annoying younger sister that he never had and his attempts to entertain her and keep her happy, such as the frog incident, are evidence that he cares deeply for her. It's just unfortunate for Shiho that Yuuichi's expectations of the relationship don't match her own.

It's rather stigmatic. To side with Yuuichi's case, all he expected from Shiho was mere friendship. From the day he freaked her out with dangling frogs, he didn't really see her as anything beyond the lifer he knew since childhood. She was never open about her feelings until the events of Mai-HiME, so she wasted several years of holding back subterranean emotions that were screaming to be released. You know, Shiho should of thanked Mai (I know it wasn't possible, due to the underlying tension between them) for giving her the "push" she needed to give Yuuichi her heart. But man oh man, was the timing lousy. In the middle of the Orphan and Carnival lunacy? Really, Shiho? Haha! Okay, maybe the Carnival was the appropriate time for Shiho to cut loose, even if that meant multiple attempts on Mai's life.

Yuuichi is also a clueless dude, like us dudes tend to be when we've programmed in our heads, that certain women in our lives are nothing more than buddies. When they turn the tables and reveal their feelings, it comes as a huge shock!

Makes sense. When I was a teen, I was clueless of the signals some of peers sent to me.

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:It's rather stigmatic. To side with Yuuichi's case, all he expected from Shiho was mere friendship. From the day he freaked her out with dangling frogs, he didn't really see her as anything beyond the lifer he knew since childhood. She was never open about her feelings until the events of Mai-HiME, so she wasted several years of holding back subterranean emotions that were screaming to be released. You know, Shiho should of thanked Mai (I know it wasn't possible, due to the underlying tension between them) for giving her the "push" she needed to give Yuuichi her heart. But man oh man, was the timing lousy. In the middle of the Orphan and Carnival lunacy? Really, Shiho? Haha! Okay, maybe the Carnival was the appropriate time for Shiho to cut loose, even if that meant multiple attempts on Mai's life.

Fair point. Upon further consideration, I feel I was perhaps a little harsh on Yuuichi earlier. Shiho's sudden declaration of love certainly wrongfooted him (which perhaps puts him in a similar position to Natsuki when Shizuru emerged as her protector, though, in Natsuki's case, that was probably more a question of Shizuru's development of romantic ardour moving at a swifter pace than her own in that relationship in my view).

However, I still believe he could've tried to clarify his own feelings at that point better. I know it's not easy and Yuuichi is too nice a guy to want to risk breaking the heart of his oldest friend. However, after Shiho sustains her injuries, Yuuichi's presence at her bedside is taken as evidence that he's chosen to pursue a relationship with her rather than Mai. It does nobody any favours, least of all Shiho, who remains insecure and regards Mai, with good reason, as an imminent threat.

I can understand why Yuuichi behaved in the manner that he did but I still feel sad for Shiho: she's the only defeated (natural) HiME whose beloved doesn't reappear before her eyes iirc.

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:Yuuichi is also a clueless dude, like us dudes tend to be when we've programmed in our heads, that certain women in our lives are nothing more than buddies. When they turn the tables and reveal their feelings, it comes as a huge shock!

GAP wrote:Makes sense. When I was a teen, I was clueless of the signals some of peers sent to me.

I'm thirding this. Hell, even my own feelings are a mystery to me most of the time, let alone anyone else's!

Break String SpinElf wrote:
I can understand why Yuuichi behaved in the manner that he did but I still feel sad for Shiho: she's the only defeated (natural) HiME whose beloved doesn't reappear before her eyes iirc.

I noticed that, too. It's tragic in the long run, and further underscores the harsh truth (for Shiho) that Yuuichi is Mai's MIP. On a much higher level. Eeep! The only light at the end of THIS tunnel is seeing Shiho cast her sadness aside to aid her fellow HiME against the Obsidian Lord.

GAP wrote:Makes sense. When I was a teen, I was clueless of the signals some of peers sent to me.

Break String SpinElf wrote:I'm thirding this. Hell, even my own feelings are a mystery to me most of the time, let alone anyone else's!

I suppose we're just a bunch of clueless dudes. Okay, maybe you guys were me BACK THEN. Now I can tell through body language, unwanted favors and other signals. Women...am I right? I've dated so many, and I can still say with a straight face: I still don't quite understand them. :3 Yuuichi gets a pass there...

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:

Break String SpinElf wrote:
I can understand why Yuuichi behaved in the manner that he did but I still feel sad for Shiho: she's the only defeated (natural) HiME whose beloved doesn't reappear before her eyes iirc.

I noticed that, too. It's tragic in the long run, and further underscores the harsh truth (for Shiho) that Yuuichi is Mai's MIP. On a much higher level. Eeep! The only light at the end of THIS tunnel is seeing Shiho cast her sadness aside to aid her fellow HiME against the Obsidian Lord.

Agreed - and also, of equal importance, is that, in reawakening in Fuuka, Yuuichi's choice of Mai over Shiho is reiterated. It was, though, as you say, heartwarming to see her joining the other HiME. Then good old Shiho is back to being this girl: -

... whilst Yuuichi still bizarrely needs his shinai to keep the women off him.

Good luck explaining that one away: "M... Mai!? I.... I'm here purely as Tatsuhiko's wingman!"

Break String SpinElf wrote:
... whilst Yuuichi still bizarrely needs his shinai to keep the women off him.

Good luck explaining that one away: "M... Mai!? I.... I'm here purely as Tatsuhiko's wingman!"

SEE!!!!! THAT RIGHT THERE IS WHAT LED TO THIS A YEAR LATER:




Women don't forgive, Reito! AND THEY SURE AS HELL NEVER FORGET! >:3 That was the point/joke of this short OVA, my friend.

Now I know what the OVA was about.

GAP wrote:Now I know what the OVA was about.

What gets me is why did it take Mai and the other HiME an entire year to execute this revenge plan? LOL! Guess they wanted Reito to have a false sense of security. Time heals?

: Never~

I'm personally not a fan of the character, for mostly the reasons that have been presented on the "nay" side of the poll. I find her too obsessive over Tate, which only leads to getting emotionally hurt. Even though that wasn't "fully" the case between her and Tate, it's still typical for obsessive-clingy personalities like hers to get rejected by the people she loves.

As for her character design. Wasn't a fan of that either. Didn't hate any of the characters when it came right down to it, as each character had something fun and contribute to the story, but based on the overall "style" of Shiho, I just wasn't that much of a fan.