Re: Was Natsuki Kuga REALLY a lesbian? [Mai-HiME]

by **Magus Phantalus** Tue May 22, 2012 8:38 pm

By the Void it feels like an eternity since I posted here.

Anywhoo my two cents I agree with the idea that Natsuki would probably scoff at any label HEY she's a REBEL YO!!(oh wait that's a label isn't it?)

That said I've spoken with and heard of girls who aren't considered lesbians by other lesbians simply because they don't look butch(You have to look a certain way to be something?... isn't that a stereotype?What?) Anyway looks and labels aside I don't think Natsuki would really care about gender but in the end I think she is a Shizuru-sexual.

by **Hohoemu** Wed May 23, 2012 12:53 pm

Yeah, Shizuru-sexuals are the best!

You're right, why does one have to look like something to truly be it?
Do I really look like a girl? Wait, am I really one?? o.O
In that case Natsuki's the stereotype of... dunno, she just looks like nothing stereotypical...

Natsuki is just out of all standards, she's not that simple to define, that would be too easy. That is why she is so fascinating, she's not only one thing.
Well, just as any "normal" person I guess...

by **IlliterateKoi** Wed May 23, 2012 2:09 pm

Following on from the stereotype subject, I definitely don't understand why some people think that all lesbians have to look/act butch, that's just ridiculous. I like my ladies quite girly thank you very much~

That being said, we are all guilty of making assumptions about people based on how they look, an example is the type of music we assume people like based on the clothes they wear.

Now, let's say that we don't know anything about any of the characters from HiME whatsoever...now place Shizuru and Natsuki next to each other, and, based purely on how they look, which would you say was the lesbian?

I know that I would immediately choose Natsuki... though if I spoke to them that would undoubtedly change XD

by **GAP** Wed May 23, 2012 4:00 pm

I don't really see Natsuki as a lesbian at all but then again I had never met real lesbians in real life so I wouldn't know. I don't think she is in too Shizuru like that even if she acknowledged her feelings.

by **Hohoemu** Wed May 23, 2012 4:39 pm

Now, let's say that we don't know anything about any of the characters from HiME whatsoever...now place Shizuru and Natsuki next to each other, and, based purely on how they look, which would you say was the lesbian?

I would say Shizuru I guess, Natsuki wouldn't fit...
I probably wouldn't even choose Shizuru if I didn't have to make a choice but really, Natsuki is too pretty for men to think she may prefer women. Shizuru is more ambiguous on that point. She is very seducing, perfectly at ease with both sexes and hard to catch. She shows no weakness, she is inscrutable and unflinching whereas Natsuki is more hot-blooded.

Delicate girls are so much better, that's true.
I know several lesbian and bi girls and they aren't all "stereotypes". Not that much feminine but except for one of them you can't say just by seeing them that they are. And seeing me no one would ever guess I am a lesbian too ^-^

by **SpiralDasher** Thu May 24, 2012 2:04 am

Vampire Orphan wrote:Now, let's say that we don't know anything about any of the characters from HiME whatsoever...now place Shizuru and Natsuki next to each other, and, based purely on how they look, which would you say was the lesbian?

I know that I would immediately choose Natsuki

I dunno~ Shizuru fits all the yuri "seme" stereotypes (some without an aspect or so):

- drinks tea
- student council president
- admired by all the students

Just like: Chikane (Kannazuki no Miko), Hisa (Saki (anime)), Shizuma (Strawberry Panic!), Kanade (Best Student Council)... I can go on. :3

by **IlliterateKoi** Thu May 24, 2012 1:41 pm

SpiralDasher wrote:

I dunno~ Shizuru fits all the yuri "seme" stereotypes (some without an aspect or so):

- drinks tea
- student council president
- admired by all the students

Just like: Chikane (Kannazuki no Miko), Hisa (Saki (anime)), Shizuma (Strawberry Panic!), Kanade (Best Student Council)... I can go on. :3

Lol, yeah if I took those things into account I would say Shizuru too. But I meant, if I knew literally nothing about them, and they were both stood in front of me, nothing else, nobody else, just them, stood there lol Based solely on how they look, ie how they dress, I would pick Natsuki (but want Shizuru to be Wink

)

Anyway, my point was that you can't tell much about a person just by looking at them, since we all know that Shizuru is about as gay as it gets ;p And, depending on who you ask, both of them are into girls. Stereotypes are silleh~

by **Luu Sky Sapphire** Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:11 am

IlliterateKoi wrote: Lol, yeah if I took those things into account I would say Shizuru too. But I meant, if I knew literally nothing about them, and they were both stood in front of me, nothing else, nobody else, just them, stood there lol Based solely on how they look, ie how they dress, I would pick Natsuki (but want Shizuru to be )

Anyway, my point was that you can't tell much about a person just by looking at them, since we all know that Shizuru is about as gay as it gets ;p And, depending on who you ask, both of them are into girls. Stereotypes are silleh~

At first sight, I'm positive most casual fans or fans just getting into the Mai-Series will assume Natsuki is a lesbian in all forms. Her entire media is attached to Shizuru, which sets off that "Dude! SWEET! LESBIANS!l" part of the brain. :3 If only they knew the real Natsuki Kuga...and Manga Natsuki.

by **Magus Phantalus** Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:05 pm

Who's the real Natsuki Luu?

And I believe I've made my stance on the first manga clear so I'm not even going to go there but for bringing it up I cast lightning; Lightning FF13

Oh wait thats not the lightning spell I meant oops...

by **Kuga Natsuki** Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:23 pm

This is only my opinion about Natsuki's sexuality, but considering how she was never interested in romance and love in the first place, I just don't see her at all as lesbian, since homosexuality means you're naturally attracted to the same sex, right? It's possible that Natsuki perhaps was an aromantic asexual, meaning no attraction/desire to either sex, sexually AND romantically. But also, sexuality can be fluid to some people, since Natsuki realized how much Shizuru did for her, she realized how much she loved Shizuru.

In my opinion, when it comes to loving Shizuru in Natsuki's world, I don't think it quite matters what kind of "love" Natsuki had. Since it's possible that naturally Natsuki isn't into women, Shizuru was an exception, because of how much Shizuru helped Natsuki. It's possible that Natsuki loved the bond she and Shizuru had, and within time when their friendship got deeper, Natsuki loved the emotional bond so much she simply loved Shizuru in an emotional way, not a physical way. Perhaps Natsuki went demisexual, meaning one isn't attraction to anyone unless an emotional bond is formed with someone.

In the HiME book, it's hinted that Natsuki talked affectionate feelings again to the graduated Shizuru, and before one knows, happiness will reach the two of them. In other words, seems like they live happily ever after, right? Ya see, I simply view Natsuki's sexuality as my sexuality: I'm just not the type of person to be physically attracted to anyone, unless an emotional bond is formed. Also, the whole Shizuru/Natsuki business is incredibly similar to a situation I've been through.

I was once friends with this girl, who happened to fall madly in love with me, and I sadly couldn't return the feelings back that she longed for (at first, at least), then I realized how much she has done for me. She reminds me a lot of Shizuru: Calm, sharp and loves to tease up to annoyance. Natsuki reminds me a lot of myself: A loner, bit manly, bit of a tomboy, bit of a rebel, serious, mysterious. Like what Shizuru did to Natsuki, I never trusted anyone, then this girl came in, and she helped me believe again. This girl and I were very close friends, and naturally I'm just not into women, but I loved the bond we had so much, we ended up dating. I wasn't physically attracted to this girl, but emotionally I was. I think that's how Natsuki was with Shizuru.

In my opinion, showing romantic love to just ONE person of the same sex and no one else of the same sex throughout your life doesn't defy your sexuality at all, because naturally, you're not attracted to people of the same sex. Sometimes there are exceptions because some people tend to look for something IN a person, not ON a person.

If some of you disagree with me, that's fine, but if any of you think I'm gay or bisexual simply because I only dated one woman in my lifetime, then that's where you have no control over how my sexuality is, because naturally I'm attracted to men. Always have been beer

by **Magus Phantalus** Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:01 pm

Most interesting but of course unless Natsuki were to tell us herself we will just keep speculating.

Now this is a question for Nymphetamine; I am someone who believes there should be harmony in everything they(Ironic since harmony is the one thing that eludes me) for example If one was in love with someone they should love them spiritually, mentally and phsically. If I may ask how would a relationship work if one is only attracted to an aspect of another?

Also my apologizes if I over step my bounds I merely wish to understand how others see the world wether or not I agree with their views.

by **Kuga Natsuki** Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:23 pm

I probably didn't explain well but my point was that since it seems that Natsuki eventually showed romantic feelings to Shizuru perhaps emotionally as the big picture, not physically, since I think that she's naturally not into women, showing infatuation or something to another woman. It seems like she loved Shizuru in an emotional way, which leads to mentally since your brain catches on with the signal, then physically, since you love the person the way they are.

As I mentioned, demisexuality means no attraction to anyone of either sex unless an emotional bond was formed with someone. One attraction can lead to another for some people, but perhaps to other people, there's only physical attraction with no strings attached, like one-night stands, for example.

As I mentioned about this girl I used to know, I was naturally not physically attracted to her, but when the emotional bond formed, she emotionally (then mentally then physically) became an exception. That's how I view Natsuki's sexuality.

I'm bad at explaining things, sorry :S

by **Magus Phantalus** Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:22 am

No need to apologize it was most enlightening. I've been a romantic far too long the idea of love at first sight is firmly ingrained in me. Sometimes I forget love sometimes needs time to flourish.

by **GAP** Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:15 am

Natsuki appeared to be a lesbian to my sister and mother because of her scene with Shizuru. I don't think that she is myself but I also that she isn't really adverse to it. Natsuki sees Shizuru as a friend and even if she cannot love Shizuru in a romantic manner. Natsuki is open minded but she is not a lesbain in any way, shape or form.

by **Luu Sky Sapphire** Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:32 pm

GAP wrote:Natsuki appeared to be a lesbian to my sister and mother because of her scene with Shizuru. I don't think that she is myself but I also that she isn't really adverse to it. Natsuki sees Shizuru as a friend and even if she cannot love Shizuru in a romantic manner. Natsuki is open minded but she is not a lesbain in any way, shape or form.

It would be wrong of me to say there's a "right" way to fall in love. In Natsuki's case, we see that she feels strongly for Shizuru emotionally. Something I feel is more powerful than the physical attraction aspect, I just consider that a major bonus.

Shizuru Fujino

by **IlliterateKoi** Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:23 pm

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:

It would be wrong of me to say there's a "right" way to fall in love. In Natsuki's case, we see that she feels strongly for Shizuru emotionally. Something I feel is more powerful than the physical attraction aspect, I just consider that a major bonus.

Agreed. You can't deny that Natsuki feels strongly for Shizuru on an emotional level, Duran's size was testament to that during their final battle. Though this could still just be friendly love and nothing more *shrugs*

by **Magus Phantalus** Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:12 pm

We are a thousand eyes looking at the tapestary that is life even though we are looking at the same thing we will all walk away with something diffrent something that comforts us something that means everything to us. So long as we remember diffrent does not mean good nor bad we can exist in harmony despite what we walk away with.

Personally I think Shizuru and Natsuki are cute together. ShizNat

by **Luu Sky Sapphire** Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:58 am

Magus Phantalus wrote:We are a thousand eyes looking at the tapestary that is life even though we are looking at the same thing we will all walk away with something diffrent something that comforts us something that means everything to us. So long as we remember diffrent does not mean good nor bad we can exist in harmony despite what we walk away with.

Personally I think Shizuru and Natsuki are cute together.

If only everyone believed that. We can only huddle with the smart crowd for now. :)

No arguments with the latter statement. Stupid Tumblr jokes aside, Shizuru and Natsuki are my air.

by **Kuga Natsuki** Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:48 am

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:
It would be wrong of me to say there's a "right" way to fall in love. In Natsuki's case, we see that she feels strongly for Shizuru emotionally. Something I feel is more powerful than the physical attraction aspect, I just consider that a major bonus.

I agree. Since when is there a rule to fall in love or to identify your own sexuality? Pretty much like Natsuki's case, I dated a girl only because I loved the emotional bond we had. I bet Natsuki felt the same way to Shizuru, because of all the times she helped Natsuki to get her back on her feet.

Just my opinion, just because you love one person, male or female, doesn't mean it identifies your sexuality :D Being a female myself, I'm not into women, yet I fell in SOME LEVEL of love to that girl I used to know. Just that one girl. I haven't fallen for any other girl. Plus I always liked guys Natsuki Kruger2

Some people are just exceptions and not everyone are the same when it comes to love and sexuality :D If we were the same, then it would be like having all people sleep during the night and staying up during the day, since that's how we were naturally brought up, like how we were naturally to love the opposite sex.

Hope that makes sense :shock:

by **WorthyDrummer** Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:32 am

My thoughts from Luu asking me on chat. Gunna copy and paste what I said :p

I would probably say that at 16, natsuki would be slightly too young to put a label on her sexuality. Sure, she has a connection to Shizuru and all. But Id say early days for her to put a label on herself. She had other things to be concerned about. Forexample the reason why Duran grew might of been more of friendship love rather than love love.

I mean, when I was 16, I was fricken confused. These days I label myself as lesbian, when I was 16... Had no idea! Does that kinda make sense?

by **Luu Sky Sapphire** Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:42 pm

WorthyDrummer wrote:My thoughts from Luu asking me on chat. Gunna copy and paste what I said :p

I would probably say that at 16, natsuki would be slightly too young to put a label on her sexuality. Sure, she has a connection to Shizuru and all. But Id say early days for her to put a label on herself. She had other things to be concerned about. Forexample the reason why Duran grew might of been more of friendship love rather than love love.

I mean, when I was 16, I was fricken confused. These days I label myself as lesbian, when I was 16... Had no idea! Does that kinda make sense?

Very true, Starch, but some people weren't confused at age 16. Lesbians discover themselves even sooner than that, if you can believe it. Natsuki had other things on her mind that didn't involve her sexuality. I believe those cliche "IT'S ALL A MISUNDERSTANDING!" run-ins with Takeda and her entire experience with Shizuru were enough to give her an idea.

Yes, that makes sense. ;p Why do you always add that at the end of your explainations? You haven't changed a bit. :p

by **WorthyDrummer** Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:48 pm

Very true. But like you said, she had other things on her mind. I think she didn't wanna love anyone too- she thought she had already lost the important people in her life.

Lol! Nope, haven't changed a bit. I say it cos most of the time I don't think I make any sense! =p

by **IlliterateKoi** Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:15 pm

WorthyDrummer wrote:My thoughts from Luu asking me on chat. Gunna copy and paste what I said :p

I would probably say that at 16, natsuki would be slightly too young to put a label on her sexuality. Sure, she has a connection to Shizuru and all. But Id say early days for her to put a label on herself. She had other things to be concerned about. Forexample the reason why Duran grew might of been more of friendship love rather than love love.

I mean, when I was 16, I was fricken confused. These days I label myself as lesbian, when I was 16... Had no idea! Does that kinda make sense?

Everyone discovers their sexuality differently, and at different ages: I knew I was gay when I was 13, so I wouldn't necessarily say that 16 was too young to be able to label yourself. It's a very individual thing, some people don't figure out their sexuality for a very long time, some know very early on.

In Natsuki's case, I think there's a possibility that she'd never even thought about it before she found out about Shizuru's feelings for her. It's only when this happened that she would probably have started thinking about her own sexuality. In the end, I don't think she would label herself as one way or the other. If we're taking it that ShizNat happens - Natsuki likes Shizuru. Gender doesn't come in to it. Just my opinion, of course ^_^

I probably just repeated myself/others from older posts, but oh well Razz

by **Luu Sky Sapphire** Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:18 pm

WorthyDrummer wrote:Very true. But like you said, she had other things on her mind. I think she didn't wanna love anyone too- she thought she had already lost the important people in her life.

Lol! Nope, haven't changed a bit. I say it cos most of the time I don't think I make any sense! =p

True, Stace. The sense of loss can be crippling to anyone. Take what Natsuki said here:

Natsuki - Was Natsuki Kuga REALLY a lesbian? [Mai-HiME] - Page 3 PDVD_090

Natsuki - Was Natsuki Kuga REALLY a lesbian? [Mai-HiME] - Page 3 PDVD_090

It was along the lines of "I don't want you to get close to me..." This angst indicates that she doesn't want Shizuru involved in the Carnival war going on. She's protective of her, one of the building blocks for a love soon to blossom (imo).

IlliterateKoi wrote:Everyone discovers their sexuality differently, and at different ages: I knew I was gay when I was 13, so I wouldn't necessarily say that 16 was too young to be able to label yourself. It's a very individual thing, some people don't figure out their sexuality for a very long time, some know very early on.

In Natsuki's case, I think there's a possibility that she'd never even thought about it before she found out about Shizuru's feelings for her. It's only when this happened that she would probably have started thinking about her own sexuality. In the end, I don't think she would label herself as one way or the other. If we're taking it that ShizNat happens - Natsuki likes Shizuru. Gender doesn't come in to it. Just my opinion, of course ^_^

I probably just repeated myself/others from older posts, but oh well

There's no proof Natsuki ever thought of love or having a relationship in general. She only knows of men's attraction to women; from every Takeda encounter. Nothing serious to where she would question her sexuality and take a chance on love. No labels for their friendship/relationship (however you see it as). I just think she's open minded to consider a relationship with another woman. Natsuki isn't homophobic like Haruka revealed herself to be in episode 22.

by **Natsuki-chan** Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:59 am

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:
Was Natsuki Kuga a lesbian? [Mai-HiME]

Because, you know, people still have their doubts. ;p

She might not realize it, but the tendency was always there I guess.

Natsuki Kuga

- Oi!

Natsuki did not dismiss Takeda outright because what she knew at the time is that heterosexual relationship is the normal thing to do? And besides, she's clueless about her bestfriend's feelings towards her.
But Natsuki, being the rebel that she is, defied the norms and followed her heart. In the end, she accepted Shizuru's proclamation of love.

ShizNat

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