Shizuru Viola deceiving Tomoe. What would you do differently?

Many thanks to Amaya for sparking this topic. :3

In the later part of Mai-Otome, Shizuru Viola humors Tomoe Marguerite in order to lower her guard. The thing is, she did it by giving up her body to Tomoe, something very taboo to fans of ShizNat who feel Shizuru should of stayed faithful to her Gakuenchou lover who was away with Juliet Nao Zhang. The topic question is, if you were in Shizuru Viola's shoes, what would you do differently to deceive Tomoe, while avoiding drastic measures that make you look bad in front of the fanbase? ;3 You may also share how you felt about the whole situation and how Natsuki might feel if she ever discovered that. After all, she wasn't told about this. o_o; Shizuru just sort of swept it under the rug.

((Okay, nao this is my topic! Thanks Luu for bringing this up as a topic on its own.

I always wondered that no inhabitant of Shiznation ever complaint about this.
It was like it was completely covered by the fact that Shizuru and
Natsuki are oh so canon in Mai Otome. And this is why it is even worse. I
mean we sadly don't see Natsuki making out with Nao on their trip
while they are alone are we?

We have the "romantic" scene where Shizuru is sacrificing herself to make sure Natsuki is save. But I don't believe she does this for the sake of the school but only for Natsuki cause that's how Shizuru is. Thank Fumi Natsuki is the headmaster cause she thinks of her responsibilities first. If it were for Shizuru she would have stayed. I bet she couldn't stand the fact of Natsuki being captured for her sake. Anyhow, so Shizuru gets captured...She of course knows about Tomoe's feelings and I have to say that Shizuru Viola is a very scheming person. She knows which buttons she has to push and she knows how to get her ways. But I doubt that this was really necessary. In my opinion there was no need to get it on with Tomoe. Even if she had rejected her, Tomoe wouldn't have hurt her because she is madly in love and that especially Shizuru should know. She might do everything in order to get her most precious person, even kill people, but she would never hurt her. So Shizuru's is playing her role way too perfect. I have to say I was completely desillusionated as a ShizNat-fan by her actions.

The moment when Natsuki and Shizuru finally meet again I was even more speechless. Seeing a clueless Natsuki being overly happy about the reunion made me furious and Shizuru doesn't have the guts to tell her any of her actions but quite the contrary. She even mentions something like "And I had a lot of fun" WHAT IS WRONG WITH HER?! No wonder somebody would fall in love with cool and honest Nao Juliet
I mean I love Shizuru and all her wicked ways but I don't like dishonesty. I am sure I could pretty much forgive her anything as long as she's honest with Natsuki because what I don't like is playing with somebodies trust and I am sure Natsuki would not have forgiven her so easily. I believe she would have been deeply hurt and hopefully gone to Nao in the end

I mean 'hello' from what we can see, they totally got in on. I mean they were in bed!!It's not something you do when you're already in a relationship.))

Kuga Natsuki wrote:
I mean I love Shizuru and all her wicked ways but I don't like dishonesty. I am sure I could pretty much forgive her anything as long as she's honest with Natsuki because what I don't like is playing with somebodies trust and I am sure Natsuki would not have forgiven her so easily. I believe she would have been deeply hurt and hopefully gone to Nao in the end

I mean 'hello' from what we can see, they totally got in on. I mean they were in bed!!It's not something you do when you're already in a relationship.))

*agrees* i don't like dishonesty at all. but it should be known that one has to keep secrets even to his/her most precious person. it's probably being able to play safe, i guess. but that's how humans work, they keep secrets, sometimes even unnecessary ones.

as for what i would do, i don't know how Shizuru works, and well, she was forced on that "scene". if i was Shizuru, i would've done the same, since it was for Natsuki.

but if i can perceive the actions of Tomoe somehow i can maybe get her into another topic where she couldn't possibly force me to that "scene." hahaha

Artemis0820 wrote:

*agrees* i don't like dishonesty at all. but it should be known that one has to keep secrets even to his/her most precious person. it's probably being able to play safe, i guess. but that's how humans work, they keep secrets, sometimes even unnecessary ones.

as for what i would do, i don't know how Shizuru works, and well, she was forced on that "scene". if i was Shizuru, i would've done the same, since it was for Natsuki.

((Maybe I have wrong values but where is the sense in doing something like this FOR natsuki when it's actually going to hurt Natsuki? Yes, everyone has secrets but cheating is certainly something you should not keep as a secret or am I wrong here?))

Kuga Natsuki wrote:


((Maybe I have wrong values but where is the sense in doing something like this FOR natsuki when it's actually going to hurt Natsuki? Yes, everyone has secrets but cheating is certainly something you should not keep as a secret or am I wrong here?))

Shizuru does have her ways. Maybe Shizuru had this thought in her mind: To tell the truth to Natsuki would be hurting her, to hide it from her, I guess I have no choice. Or something like that.

I don't think it'd be like cheating. Also, we can have different views on the subject. As for me, I didn't think it was cheating, not because of what Shizuru said, but Tomoe made the first move. Yes, Shizuru can resist the person, but then again, information lent to her was minimal. So in order to gain Tomoe's full trust, she had to be a "slave" to her.

(( I'm going to hold my answer until we examine the actual scenes between Shizuru, Tomoe and even Natsuki. :) Check back tomorrow! ))

((I am very thrilled nao ))

Kuga Natsuki wrote:((I am very thrilled nao ))

same goes for me.

like yeah.

hahaha

*laughs about the NatNao hints in Amaya's post*

Oh well *sighs* It's somehow like people believing in the fact that Shizuru raped Natsuki in HiME. I never believed that Shizuru did slept with Tomoe. Remember this stupid baby toys?? I believe Shizuru just played along with Tomoe with these.

Amaya wrote:Even if she had rejected her, Tomoe wouldn't have hurt her because she is madly in love and that especially Shizuru should know. She might do everything in order to get her most precious person, even kill people, but she would never hurt her.

Don't think so. Remember how mad Tomoe got when she saw that Shizuru hooked up with Natsuki?? And hey, she is a crazy person :3 I sometimes think she would react like Shizuru in HiME, I mean the 'I don't care, if I hurt Natsuki as long as she belongs to me'-attitude.

Dishonesty, huh?? Won't be a problem, when you believe the baby toys-story. Like that believing that Shizuru thought not telling Natsuki about it, because it just wasn't necessary, is easy, no??

(( Here are my feelings on the Shizuru x Tomoe situation before observing the videos:

During a desperate time when Grand Duke Nagi took over Garderobe, Shizuru had no choice but to back down and separate from Natsuki, in order for her to escape unharmed (so the Juliet Nao Zhang lovage could begin!). Tomoe seized the opportunity to set The Bewitching Smile Amethyst free because as you know, she has a 'thing' for her 'Big Sister'. While keeping Shizuru safe in her private room, Tomoe promises to return Natsuki Kruger back to her, but not without giving the crimson eyed beauty a tender kiss. Hoping to remove any thought of the Gakuenchou for the time being. Shizuru accepts the kiss and the Infantilism for the time being, proving for distraction? Perhaps she was enjoying it? What followed was a bit shocking when I first witnessed it.

Thanks to her big mouth, Tomoe receives a nice slap from Nina Wang. Running to Shizuru to help kiss the boo-boo away (apparently, Shizuru knows magic spells...), the unthinkable occurs, even if it were just pretend. To say...

......

Tomoe: 'Soon, I can obtain freedom for you and the Headmaster'

Shizuru Viola: 'There's no need anymore. Since I already have you, Tomoe.'

...could send the wrong message. Either Shizuru is really smart or just word vomited. Later on when Natsuki Kruger and reinforcements arrived to take back Garderobe Academy, she is finally reunited with Shizuru. Shizuru tells her that the trouble she went through was worth it for Natsuki...and that she had quite a bit of fun. *ahem* Cue ShizxTom screenshot:



Playing Tomoe like a harp from Hell? Good.

Having sex with her for the sole purpose of "fun"? BAD.

Her heart will always belong to Natsuki as she made clear to Tomoe in the aftermath, but was giving her body to Tomoe necessary? This is the question that truly set this thread into motion. Amaya is right btw, even if the bad guys won the day, Tomoe wouldn't of killed Shizuru out of frustration for choosing Natsuki over her. It would just be Mai-HiME Shizuru Fujino and Natsuki Kuga all over again. I've stated many times that even though Natsuki Kuga TECHNICALLY defeated Shizuru and Kiyohime, I felt Shizuru was holding back for Natsuki. And nao, let us observe the videos and see if I can change my views:

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Mai-Otome: Shizuru Viola x Tomoe Marguerite Collection [Japanese Version]

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Mai-Otome: Shizuru Viola x Tomoe Marguerite Collection [English Version]

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When Tomoe kisses Shizuru, it is not returned. It doesn't even look like Shizuru was enjoying it, could it be because she was thinking of Natsuki? Natsuki magically popped up for a second as if she felt a great disturbance in The Force, lol. It's almost comical if you watch it back, it's like Natsuki is telepathically linked to Shizuru...kinda like E.T.! Jokes aside, let's just say she didn't enjoy the kiss at all, but then, Shizuru never had a sexual experience with Tomoe nao, did she? Later on during their lovemaking, I'm pretty sure Shizuru came to love what Tomoe had to offer as a sex partner. She is more direct, forceful and even submissive than Natsuki Kruger imo. I can only commend Shizuru for not selling out and running off with one of Nagi's Valkyrie disciples. Did anyone want to see a fight between Natsuki Kruger and Tomoe right there? I sure did. ^^; This was not Arika's fight, even if the two had a history together as well. One minor complaint I have is why didn't Natsuki question this 'fun'? I know they couldn't at the time since they had bigger concerns going on, but why wasn't this mentioned again? ^^; You can't tell me ShizNat didn't have a victory sex celebration after the battles were over and you can't tell me Natsuki didn't smell someone else on Shizuru while going down on her! >:3

Bottom line, Shizuru is once again, the topic of controversy. Despite all this, that's what makes her so thrilling to watch. Whether we agree with her actions or not.))

((*takes a deep breath to calm herself first*

I really need to stop being so outraged about Shizuru's actions but then, when I see the videos I am always like WTF?? Maybe I just wanna smack Natsuki since she doesn't doubt or questions any of Shizuru's actions and words. Maybe the headmaster is much too faithful at times. I mean she should fight for likings at least for once. She's always fighting to save somebody else. She fights for Shizuru and Mai and the world in the final HiME-battles, she fights for Garderobe in Mai Otome. I don't get it. Natsuki should be the main character anyways, so why don't give her at least some diginity in fighting for her shit. I mean Natsuki x Tomoe fight was much needed along with another Shizuru x Nao fight with a different winner this time
Of course we don't see Shiz and Tomoe having sex but Shizuru looks very much naked with the key in her hand. It's always a matter of what you want to believe. I mean in Otome I believe without a doubt that they had sex but in HiME I doubt that she raped Natsuki in her sleep. Ah I get it. I love HiME-Shizuru and have a problem with her Viola-clone))

(( Just goes to show that Natsuki Kruger isn't as assertive as people may think. At least, when it comes to claiming her lover. Did that road trip with Juliet Nao Zhang show Natsuki that she had options in her life too? Who knows...X3 ))

I actually have some mixed feelings about Shizuru sleeping with Tomoe. On the one hand, I can understand why she did it. There are countless possibilities as to why Shizuru let it happen. But on the other hand, I feel like maybe she could have done something to stop it. Not exactly sure what... but, something.

I'm noticing the issue people are having with this is that Shizuru doesn't enlighten Natsuki about the events that occurred. Here's my take on it. I think Natsuki knows, and I think she understands and forgives. Because here's the thing... Shizuru slept with Tomoe, yes... but she doesn't have feelings for the girl. I'm not saying it's okay to sleep with someone else if you don't have feelings for them, but the way I imagine it... Tomoe would have had Shizuru's body, regardless. As Narsi pointed out, Shizuru was taking the route of least resistance/retaliation. So yeah, it sucked that Shizuru slept with someone else, but given the situation, it was probably a smart move for the overall execution of Mission-Take-Back-Garderobe.

As for how Natsuki knows, it could be a variety of things. Could be that Natsuki read between the lines with Shizuru's cryptic-like messages. Or could be that Shizuru told her. I don't think Natsuki's dignity is at stake just cause she didn't question Shizuru's actions with Tomoe. In fact, I think it's the opposite. I don't see Natsuki as a very trusting person... especially with how Shizuru acted when they first met. I'm sure it took years and years of hardships and all sorts of crazy stuff happening for Kruger to trust Viola the way she does.

Bleh. I don't think I'm doing a good job explaining... >.>;

Because of how Shizuru Viola is, you know, her forward personality, it probably did take Miss Kruger years to trust her. We can assume, ASSUME mine you, that since Natsuki Kuga had trusting issues, her Otome incarnation has them too. You brought up valid points, Dye, I just can't accept it until we get some sort of sign that Natsuki DOES know about the sex with Tomoe thing. You're not wrong though, was it not a complicated situation the crimson-eyed seductress was in? I don't blame her for lowering Tomoe's guard long enough, but it could of been executed better. Tomoe was so smitten by simply being around Shizuru, that just playing 'Twister' with her Shizuru-oneesama would of been enough to keep her satisfied/distracted.

Bleh nothing, Diana. You're doing just fine. :)

I don't think Shizuru had much of a choice there. I mean it's easy to say she could have done this or that instead - it's what I wish too - but there really weren't that many options.

Shizuru was a captive and had no power at that time. Tomoe lied to Shizuru and told her Natsuki was captured too, hinting she could make things easier for her - or worse. So Shizuru had "the choice" between playing along or endangering Natsuki.

From the scene where Tomoe was first kissing Shizuru, I think it's pretty obvious that Shizuru was not enjoying this, she seemed more shocked or paralysed than anything else. The only "fun" part of this all was probably the moment she got the key from Tomoe, thus turning the tables at last.

Shizuru and Natsuki did reunite in the middle of a fight, there was not really time for a long talk and less time to make one of them worry. So what Shizuru said then was more like one of her standard jokes - a cover-up, but not the truth.

Natsuki probably didn't know the whole truth then, but I guess she would have got to know about it at some later point. She would have been hurt, certainly, but I don't think she would have blamed Shizuru for anything that had happened.

I agree with almost everything you have said. There is just one thing I have always been skeptical of.

frzn wrote:
Shizuru was a captive and had no power at that time. Tomoe lied to Shizuru and told her Natsuki was captured too, hinting she could make things easier for her - or worse. So Shizuru had "the choice" between playing along or endangering Natsuki.

Did Shizuru really believe Tomoe when the girl said that Natsuki was captured? Because, for one, Shizuru was captured so that Natsuki could flee and acquire help. And, for two, the source holds no credibility. Shizuru already knew Tomoe was a cheating, lying, dirty... evil woman.

I mean... I know if it was me, I'd be somewhat skeptical... but at the same time, I probably would have gone with the plan assuming that they DID have Natsuki. Hope for the best, and prepare for the worst. :3

In any case, I think that was what Shizuru had in mind. But that's just my observation.

I'm honestly surprised Tomoe didn't go with the whole "during the fight, The Gakuenchou was killed. *fake sniff* I'm so sorry, Shizuru....BUT I'M HERE FOR YOU!" distraction, so she could try and kill Natsuki without Shizuru knowing. That would of made the triangle a tad darker.

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:I'm honestly surprised Tomoe didn't go with the whole "during the fight, The Gakuenchou was killed. *fake sniff* I'm so sorry, Shizuru....BUT I'M HERE FOR YOU!" distraction, so she could try and kill Natsuki without Shizuru knowing. That would of made the triangle a tad darker.

That would have made things darker. And I think Tomoe didn't want to tell Shizuru that because I'm sure Shizuru would NOT react in a favorable way for Tomoe. If Tomoe said Natsuki died, there Shizuru would have no reason to continue the charade, right? I mean, she was obedient because she wanted to ensure Natsuki's safety. If Natsuki died, Shizuru would cause hell to break loose. ^-^;

ookamidesu wrote:That would have made things darker. And I think Tomoe didn't want to tell Shizuru that because I'm sure Shizuru would NOT react in a favorable way for Tomoe. If Tomoe said Natsuki died, there Shizuru would have no reason to continue the charade, right? I mean, she was obedient because she wanted to ensure Natsuki's safety. If Natsuki died, Shizuru would cause hell to break loose. ^-^;

More Hell than she did in Mai-HiME.

Remember Juliet Nao Zhang's image of an Otome's abilities?



That's what would happen if Natsuki was killed. o_o;;;

And unfortunately for Tomoe Margierute, she would be one of the many victims. Shizuru was smart enough to know Tomoe was an enemy, nothing we say can dispute this. :) Sorry Tomoe, Shizuru-oneesama won't simply jump into your arms after a tragic 'what-if' event like that.

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:

ookamidesu wrote:That would have made things darker. And I think Tomoe didn't want to tell Shizuru that because I'm sure Shizuru would NOT react in a favorable way for Tomoe. If Tomoe said Natsuki died, there Shizuru would have no reason to continue the charade, right? I mean, she was obedient because she wanted to ensure Natsuki's safety. If Natsuki died, Shizuru would cause hell to break loose. ^-^;

More Hell than she did in Mai-HiME.

Remember Juliet Nao Zhang's image of an Otome's abilities?



That's what would happen if Natsuki was killed. o_o;;;

And unfortunately for Tomoe Margierute, she would be one of the many victims. Shizuru was smart enough to know Tomoe was an enemy, nothing we say can dispute this. :) Sorry Tomoe, Shizuru-oneesama won't simply jump into your arms after a tragic 'what-if' event like that.

Nao's imagination of Shizuru is.... intense. ^-^;
Such crazy abs she imagines the other girl having.

ookamidesu wrote:Nao's imagination of Shizuru is.... intense. ^-^;
Such crazy abs she imagines the other girl having.

:) Maybe Juliet's into female bodybuilders~

Sorry, I meant to get back to this sooner.

ookamidesu wrote:Did Shizuru really believe Tomoe when the girl said that Natsuki was captured? Because, for one, Shizuru was captured so that Natsuki could flee and acquire help. And, for two, the source holds no credibility. Shizuru already knew Tomoe was a cheating, lying, dirty... evil woman.

I mean... I know if it was me, I'd be somewhat skeptical... but at the same time, I probably would have gone with the plan assuming that they DID have Natsuki. Hope for the best, and prepare for the worst. :3

I guess the problem was that she had no means to verify one or the other. In the beginning of Shizuru's track on the drama CD, she says that she received a letter from Natsuki (after a month o_O'), telling her that she was save - so that's the point from which on she could be certain. And then she grasped the first opportunity to escape. (And whatever she did with Tomoe - and who knows who initiated it anyway - similar things must've happened before, when Shizuru could not risk to refuse her. Attacking Tomoe openly at that time would have just ended badly, even for Shizuru.)

frzn wrote:Sorry, I meant to get back to this sooner.

ookamidesu wrote:Did Shizuru really believe Tomoe when the girl said that Natsuki was captured? Because, for one, Shizuru was captured so that Natsuki could flee and acquire help. And, for two, the source holds no credibility. Shizuru already knew Tomoe was a cheating, lying, dirty... evil woman.

I mean... I know if it was me, I'd be somewhat skeptical... but at the same time, I probably would have gone with the plan assuming that they DID have Natsuki. Hope for the best, and prepare for the worst. :3

I guess the problem was that she had no means to verify one or the other. In the beginning of Shizuru's track on the drama CD, she says that she received a letter from Natsuki (after a month o_O'), telling her that she was save - so that's the point from which on she could be certain. And then she grasped the first opportunity to escape. (And whatever she did with Tomoe - and who knows who initiated it anyway - similar things must've happened before, when Shizuru could not risk to refuse her. Attacking Tomoe openly at that time would have just ended badly, even for Shizuru.)

I agree. I, too, would have chosen the path that is most beneficial to my plans.

And should anything happen, like bedding a psycho, I would let my significant other know after all the chaos is over. :3

From what I've read it looks like the biggest gripe fans seem to have with this is the not knowing if Shizuru ever told Natsuki...and I gotta admit it's driving me NUTS!!!! Well there are still several really good fanfictions out there that detail a what if Shizuru told Natsuki scenario. I read a nice short one called "Cutting Losses" by paxbanana on fanfiction.net that plays out just how I thought it would if it was in the anime.

Magus Phantalus wrote:From what I've read it looks like the biggest gripe fans seem to have with this is the not knowing if Shizuru ever told Natsuki...and I gotta admit it's driving me NUTS!!!! Well there are still several really good fanfictions out there that detail a what if Shizuru told Natsuki scenario. I read a nice short one called "Cutting Losses" by paxbanana on fanfiction.net that plays out just how I thought it would if it was in the anime.

Hmm, haven't read that one yet. Hey Magnus, if you have any fanfiction recommendations, list them here please?:

Recommend FanFiction [Mai-HiME + Mai-Otome]

I need to discover gems (heck; even stinkers) that I haven't read yet. :)