Tomoe Marguerite character analysis [Mai-Otome]
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Re: Tomoe Marguerite character analysis [Mai-Otome]
MissSoccerNinja wrote:It would make sense for Tomoe to have some sort of mental disorder. SpiralDasher and TwistedEternalWolvetta have really good points.Twisted Eternal Wolvetta wrote:Now, I won't go into this much, because I'm honestly annoyed that it is getting attention from someone else even though I've been trying to scream this out myself for months.
Where can I find your posts describing this issue? I'm definitely interested in your theories. =]
Basically...
https://ltahime.forumotion.com/t300p120-be-honest-do-you-like-tomoe-marguerite
Warning: This is when I was incredibly angry however, so my true feelings to ShizNatsu are revealed here in case you are an utter lover of them.
- Spoiler:
- Because I am absolutely sick and tired to the back teeth of the amount of hatred Tomoe is constantly getting, I'm going to point out some things.
Fujino - Backstory? None.
Tomoe - Backstory? None.
Fujino
- Obsession over Kuga.
- Stalks Kuga.
- Teases fangirls.
- Attempts to murder Nao more than once.
- Kills District One workers over her obsession to Kuga.
- Wipes out Yukino's CHILD, knowing fully well how weak Yukino is as a HiME, merely for HaruKino standing up to her.
- ShizNatsu death.
- Reincarnation, off pops the "Sorry! *claps hands to cheek*.
- Sudden forgiveness; however Nao shall never forgive her.
Kruger - Major fangirl of Viola.
Viola - Attempts and suggests over sexual harrassment.
Kruger - Detests Viola.
Viola - Fights with Haruka.
Kruger - Forgives Viola.
Tomoe - Obsession to Viola (either romantic or not, I'm not entirely sure).
Viola - Ignores Tomoe.
Tomoe - Desperation for acknowledgement of Viola.
Viola - Ignores Tomoe.
Tomoe - Becomes a Valkyrie for acknowledgement from Viola.
Viola - Stabs Tomoe in the back. For what reason? Merely because Viola was bored.
The more Viola stabs at her, the worse Tomoe's obsession for acknowledgement forms, which brings about the involvement over her manipulating Miya into getting rid of the barriers (Arika) facing her to get the attention from Viola. Although without backstory, I believe that deep down she still has her true personality which she had originally before meeting with Viola - sweet and innocent - e,g; Otome-Manga Tomoe shows this without major insanity, she even says sorry to Miya and protects her during events even though she does have a crush for Viola.
Viola -> Manipulates Tomoe - > Manipulates Miya -> Manipulates Eristin & Arika -> Tomoe gets the blame. Why? Because no one believes Viola is like this – hence; the unguided soul gets punished instead of treated.
Its merely a whole gigantic chain reaction from Viola at all times, she is behind the curtains of a play controlling all of the characters whilst these characters in response get ridiculed if something is to go wrong.
Final note:
Fujino - A physiologically mad school girl who has a fit over her prey getting out of her tracks for once, e,g; mass murder under the major stealth barrier due to the HiME Carnival – the other characters are afraid of her sheer ability of manipulation and talent of staying under the spotlight of getting caught. Conclusion: little princess who gets everything.
Tomoe – Manipulated for the sake of being a fangirl and merely wants attention from her role model who is anything but that; in regards to this in return she is ignored which increases her determination into getting a response to her role model. However, due to seeing Viola's true personality Tomoe instead unconsciously develops Viola's personality vaguely which results into her learning how to be a mini Viola – note that Viola is her role model, and when you have a role model, you want to be like them. Conclusion: that student who was stabbed in the back because Viola knew precisely how to play with her strings which then brings about Zwei, which I believe Tomoe wanted to become the President to reveal who Viola truly is, along with ruining her.
After all, it is historically known every so often that the victim becomes the abuser.
I don't believe anything was wrong with either Fujino or Viola; however, by the end of Zwei I believe Tomoe would have developed the personality disorder, because honestly? Tomoe screams it in the anime.
”Borderline personality disorder (BPD)
BPD may cause a number of problems in different areas of your life. You may feel that you don’t have a strong sense of who you really are, and others may describe you as very changeable. You will suffer from mood swings, switching from one intense emotion to another very quickly, often with angry outbursts, and you may have brief psychotic episodes when you hear voices or see things that others can’t. You may end up doing things on impulse, which you later regret. You may have episodes of harming yourself, and think about taking your own life. You will probably also have a history of stormy or broken relationships, and you will have a tendency to cling on to very damaging relationships, because you are terrified of being alone."
Tomoe - Merely a person who is desperate for love but cannot understand it, other people, and especially not herself. She is misunderstood, and perhaps she has no idea what is wrong with her, but deep down she knows she has done wrong, although in reality, this isn't nothing compared to what Fujino did. Tomoe has merely learned how to survive in her own way through Viola.
If I was in Tomoe's situation, I would be in a serious mess as well. This is what people don't understand with obsession, I can relate to Tomoe, because I've had intense obsessions with not only objects and subjects, but also people. The thing with an obsession is that it develops further each time, it is alike to Autism, it becomes so extreme at times that you are in agony if you don't feed onto this source more. Tomoe has the problem in where she needs to feed off of the type of attention which Viola radiates else it'll bring the etching sensation of not only withdrawal, but also displeasure. An Autist style obsession is alike to that of when your body eats away at you when you are dying from hunger; you can overcome this, but at times it becomes so serious that you have to wait for it to die out on its own.
My obsessions were: the colour green for a good twelve years (a hell of a lot of my clothes were green, and my room is still green), Tomb Raider for around a decade (which I'll be more than likely redeveloping due to the reboot the series has gotten recently), astronomy, history and science for most of my life, Warcraft. My current obsessions are the Touhou Project which has been spiralling out of control for a good four years whilst my other has been Mai Otome for two years. Also, I had a bad obsession over a person who I absolutely adored, whether this was actual romantic love, I'm not sure, but this lasted for about four-five years, I was devoted to her, wanted to please her and understand her as much as possible, I just couldn't understand her properly when she would say she "only liked me a little", or that she "has somebody else".
This is the thing about Tomoe, she is more than one person mentally, she is so deep alike to that of an ocean that you need to study her so well, else you will make a mistake somewhere. So instead of constantly drawing the line on her, do something simple: study her.
Tomoe centred: https://ltahime.forumotion.com/t1247-lavandula-pedunculata
A possible disorder Tomoe might have developed after Otome: http://www.mentalhealthcare.org.uk/psychotic_depression
Forms of personality disorder: http://www.mind.org.uk/help/diagnoses_and_conditions/personality_disorders
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Re: Tomoe Marguerite character analysis [Mai-Otome]
MissSoccerNinja wrote:It would make sense for Tomoe to have some sort of mental disorder. SpiralDasher and TwistedEternalWolvetta have really good points.Twisted Eternal Wolvetta wrote:Now, I won't go into this much, because I'm honestly annoyed that it is getting attention from someone else even though I've been trying to scream this out myself for months.
Where can I find your posts describing this issue? I'm definitely interested in your theories. =]
To answer your question, her posts can be found in the thread: Be Honest. Do You Like Tomoe Marguerite?
:3
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Re: Tomoe Marguerite character analysis [Mai-Otome]
No worries, mate! Something just clicked in my head when I had one tab open on MM and another tab open on key sociopathic behavior (I was multitasking, studying for a character in my mystery novel). I looked at the analyzing thread and didn't see anything about it here, so I posted. Not really into Tomoe's character so I never usually care to check her boards. No need to get angry; I'm sure you thought about it more than I have. ^^
Re: Tomoe Marguerite character analysis [Mai-Otome]
Twisted Eternal Wolvetta wrote:MissSoccerNinja wrote:It would make sense for Tomoe to have some sort of mental disorder. SpiralDasher and TwistedEternalWolvetta have really good points.Twisted Eternal Wolvetta wrote:Now, I won't go into this much, because I'm honestly annoyed that it is getting attention from someone else even though I've been trying to scream this out myself for months.
Where can I find your posts describing this issue? I'm definitely interested in your theories. =]
Basically...
https://ltahime.forumotion.com/t300p120-be-honest-do-you-like-tomoe-marguerite
Warning: This is when I was incredibly angry however, so my true feelings to ShizNatsu are revealed here in case you are an utter lover of them.
- Spoiler:
Because I am absolutely sick and tired to the back teeth of the amount of hatred Tomoe is constantly getting, I'm going to point out some things.
Fujino - Backstory? None.
Tomoe - Backstory? None.
Fujino
- Obsession over Kuga.
- Stalks Kuga.
- Teases fangirls.
- Attempts to murder Nao more than once.
- Kills District One workers over her obsession to Kuga.
- Wipes out Yukino's CHILD, knowing fully well how weak Yukino is as a HiME, merely for HaruKino standing up to her.
- ShizNatsu death.
- Reincarnation, off pops the "Sorry! *claps hands to cheek*.
- Sudden forgiveness; however Nao shall never forgive her.
Kruger - Major fangirl of Viola.
Viola - Attempts and suggests over sexual harrassment.
Kruger - Detests Viola.
Viola - Fights with Haruka.
Kruger - Forgives Viola.
Tomoe - Obsession to Viola (either romantic or not, I'm not entirely sure).
Viola - Ignores Tomoe.
Tomoe - Desperation for acknowledgement of Viola.
Viola - Ignores Tomoe.
Tomoe - Becomes a Valkyrie for acknowledgement from Viola.
Viola - Stabs Tomoe in the back. For what reason? Merely because Viola was bored.
The more Viola stabs at her, the worse Tomoe's obsession for acknowledgement forms, which brings about the involvement over her manipulating Miya into getting rid of the barriers (Arika) facing her to get the attention from Viola. Although without backstory, I believe that deep down she still has her true personality which she had originally before meeting with Viola - sweet and innocent - e,g; Otome-Manga Tomoe shows this without major insanity, she even says sorry to Miya and protects her during events even though she does have a crush for Viola.
Viola -> Manipulates Tomoe - > Manipulates Miya -> Manipulates Eristin & Arika -> Tomoe gets the blame. Why? Because no one believes Viola is like this – hence; the unguided soul gets punished instead of treated.
Its merely a whole gigantic chain reaction from Viola at all times, she is behind the curtains of a play controlling all of the characters whilst these characters in response get ridiculed if something is to go wrong.
Final note:
Fujino - A physiologically mad school girl who has a fit over her prey getting out of her tracks for once, e,g; mass murder under the major stealth barrier due to the HiME Carnival – the other characters are afraid of her sheer ability of manipulation and talent of staying under the spotlight of getting caught. Conclusion: little princess who gets everything.
Tomoe – Manipulated for the sake of being a fangirl and merely wants attention from her role model who is anything but that; in regards to this in return she is ignored which increases her determination into getting a response to her role model. However, due to seeing Viola's true personality Tomoe instead unconsciously develops Viola's personality vaguely which results into her learning how to be a mini Viola – note that Viola is her role model, and when you have a role model, you want to be like them. Conclusion: that student who was stabbed in the back because Viola knew precisely how to play with her strings which then brings about Zwei, which I believe Tomoe wanted to become the President to reveal who Viola truly is, along with ruining her.
After all, it is historically known every so often that the victim becomes the abuser.
I don't believe anything was wrong with either Fujino or Viola; however, by the end of Zwei I believe Tomoe would have developed the personality disorder, because honestly? Tomoe screams it in the anime.
”Borderline personality disorder (BPD)
BPD may cause a number of problems in different areas of your life. You may feel that you don’t have a strong sense of who you really are, and others may describe you as very changeable. You will suffer from mood swings, switching from one intense emotion to another very quickly, often with angry outbursts, and you may have brief psychotic episodes when you hear voices or see things that others can’t. You may end up doing things on impulse, which you later regret. You may have episodes of harming yourself, and think about taking your own life. You will probably also have a history of stormy or broken relationships, and you will have a tendency to cling on to very damaging relationships, because you are terrified of being alone."
Tomoe - Merely a person who is desperate for love but cannot understand it, other people, and especially not herself. She is misunderstood, and perhaps she has no idea what is wrong with her, but deep down she knows she has done wrong, although in reality, this isn't nothing compared to what Fujino did. Tomoe has merely learned how to survive in her own way through Viola.
If I was in Tomoe's situation, I would be in a serious mess as well. This is what people don't understand with obsession, I can relate to Tomoe, because I've had intense obsessions with not only objects and subjects, but also people. The thing with an obsession is that it develops further each time, it is alike to Autism, it becomes so extreme at times that you are in agony if you don't feed onto this source more. Tomoe has the problem in where she needs to feed off of the type of attention which Viola radiates else it'll bring the etching sensation of not only withdrawal, but also displeasure. An Autist style obsession is alike to that of when your body eats away at you when you are dying from hunger; you can overcome this, but at times it becomes so serious that you have to wait for it to die out on its own.
My obsessions were: the colour green for a good twelve years (a hell of a lot of my clothes were green, and my room is still green), Tomb Raider for around a decade (which I'll be more than likely redeveloping due to the reboot the series has gotten recently), astronomy, history and science for most of my life, Warcraft. My current obsessions are the Touhou Project which has been spiralling out of control for a good four years whilst my other has been Mai Otome for two years. Also, I had a bad obsession over a person who I absolutely adored, whether this was actual romantic love, I'm not sure, but this lasted for about four-five years, I was devoted to her, wanted to please her and understand her as much as possible, I just couldn't understand her properly when she would say she "only liked me a little", or that she "has somebody else".
This is the thing about Tomoe, she is more than one person mentally, she is so deep alike to that of an ocean that you need to study her so well, else you will make a mistake somewhere. So instead of constantly drawing the line on her, do something simple: study her.
Tomoe centred: https://ltahime.forumotion.com/t1247-lavandula-pedunculata
A possible disorder Tomoe might have developed after Otome: http://www.mentalhealthcare.org.uk/psychotic_depression
Forms of personality disorder: http://www.mind.org.uk/help/diagnoses_and_conditions/personality_disorders
A very thorough and great analysis! =] While I don't agree with every point (mainly the parts involving Shizuru Fujino), it is definite that your Tomoe analysis and theories are very logical, valid, and should be given the credit they deserve. Thank you for sharing that amazing analysis! =]
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Re: Tomoe Marguerite character analysis [Mai-Otome]
MissSoccerNinja wrote:A very thorough and great analysis! =] While I don't agree with every point (mainly the parts involving Shizuru Fujino), it is definite that your Tomoe analysis and theories are very logical, valid, and should be given the credit they deserve. Thank you for sharing that amazing analysis! =]
That's what makes Wolvy's analysis of Mai-characters good. You don't really have to analyze Tomoe because no matter how you look at it, she was set up as an heel from beginning to end with no sign of redemption. Very simple character on the surface. However, given that Tomoe is an underrated piece of hotness, fan support for her is most appreciated. If you can make me feel different about her by exploring her mentality (
Re: Tomoe Marguerite character analysis [Mai-Otome]
This is a nice analysis of Tomoe but wjat do you think that Tomoe needs to realize her errors?
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Re: Tomoe Marguerite character analysis [Mai-Otome]
GAP wrote:This is a nice analysis of Tomoe but wjat do you think that Tomoe needs to realize her errors?
Well, if she's a
That's my take on it anyway.
Edit: After thinking a little more on it, Tomoe seems more like a psychopath than a sociopath. (Yes, there is a very slight difference, but it's there. x-x So much research...)
Re: Tomoe Marguerite character analysis [Mai-Otome]
Here's my "analysis-in-a-nutshell" for Tomoe:
Tomoe combines the Determinator will of Akira, with the Drama Mamma tendencies of Mai. Just without the Mamma Mamma tendencies of Mai.
Looks-wise, too: take Akira's build and hair color, and use Mai's face...BAM! Instant Tomoe!
Tomoe combines the Determinator will of Akira, with the Drama Mamma tendencies of Mai. Just without the Mamma Mamma tendencies of Mai.
Looks-wise, too: take Akira's build and hair color, and use Mai's face...BAM! Instant Tomoe!
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Re: Tomoe Marguerite character analysis [Mai-Otome]
SpiralDasher wrote:Well, if she's a sociopath psychopath then she thinks her actions are completely justified and doesn't even realized or believe she's done anything wrong/bad, or just doesn't care. If this was the case, she'd need extensive psychological counseling... to start with. x_X Even then, she could just as easily lie her way to "recovery" just so people would stop bothering her with their stupid "wanting to help her." Sociopaths Psychopaths are more likely to mock or feel disdain towards someone for trying to help them recover.
That's my take on it anyway.
Edit: After thinking a little more on it, Tomoe seems more like a psychopath than a sociopath. (Yes, there is a very slight difference, but it's there. x-x So much research...)
BMeph wrote:Here's my "analysis-in-a-nutshell" for Tomoe:
Tomoe combines the Determinator will of Akira, with the Drama Mamma tendencies of Mai. Just without the Mamma Mamma tendencies of Mai.
Looks-wise, too: take Akira's build and hair color, and use Mai's face...BAM! Instant Tomoe!
These are some of the reasons why I love Tomoe so much, because whether or not if people like it or not, Tomoe is one of the top most mysterious and powerful characters which the Mai Series has. She's one of the true independent characters, a hell of a lot more than Natsuki for going around things her own way.
Certainly, Tomoe is definitely the type who would slice at your fingers if you were to attempt to help her, because honestly? By the end of the series she would be suspicious of everyone, even Shizuru (due to the betrayal and all, just look at how she reacted, or, in her case; didn't react).
I do wish Sunrise weren't so trollish though when it comes to plot, it was so highly uncharacteristic of Tomoe appearing out of nowhere wanting to become the President of the Aries Republic without putting out a reason for why she even wanted to become it in the first place. To annoy Shizuru? To abruptly go after Yukino, Haruka, Chie and Sara for some random reason?
I think the main problem with the series is, is that Sunrise just doesn't do enough to put to light how the characters are truly like along with actually telling us what the hell happens behind the scenes. E,g; we only have around a scene each for the whole events of the Dragon King War and the Twelve Kingdom War. How about for each select character and where they originated from? (Family wise along with their reason to become an Otome, or in Nagi's case, how he managed to become the Grand Duke when his father, who was inspired on Henry VIII of England had so many offspring, one of those being his sister, Mashiro).
But either way, in reality I would say that the only people who would be able to get through to Tomoe would be either Miya or Mai these days. Miya because she has experienced Tomoe's true natural first hand whilst Mai is that type of person who would stop at nothing to help someone, whether the person liked it or not.
I desperately hope that Sunrise aren't going to screw Tomoe over even worse in HiME Mao though, because the concept I've seen of her... its basically “buubuubuu”-Tomoe along with uncharacteristic fangirling (love hearts coming from her whilst wriggling around, etc, can you honestly see Tomoe doing that? She is far too reserved, and when going through one of her "episodes" she is too busy aiming her attention on the person who has annoyed her) even though because it appears she is going to be a main character in the new possible anime, I can't help but find that she has just been shoved to the sidelines to become one of those dopey girls who chase after the true main lead, like Mikoto but to the extreme without the combat skills.
I have a child? Since when?
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