Anyone not sympathetic with Mai Tokiha during the Carnival Arc?

Mai Tokiha is without a doubt Mai-HiME's greatest treasure to me. She is the one who destroys the Obsidian Lord and saves Mikoto from her brother's vile clutches. But before all this took place, she was a sad and miserable person with no sense of direction in life. Unable to go a certain path because she always devoted herself to others out of some sense of servitude. This is no way for a person to live, even her own insecure brother pointed this out.

This thread will center on anyone who wasn't sympathetic with Mai during the events of the Carnival arc. Adding onto her indecisive nature, Mai stated that she will go ahead with the Carnival's game and defeat all the HiME. She even accepts her fate as a bringer of death (Alyssa and Mikoto, who she thought was dead). This is her low point of course, but some may argue that she gave up her principles too easily. We all gave Mai more free passes than Shizuru and Nao, but for the first time, I'd like to see if anyone was fed up with the way she handled the situation and her actions.

Discuss below and let me know!  

Personally I saw it as her mind had snapped, especially after Takumi's death, who was in essence the sole reason she released Kagutsuchi to begin with.

When one looks at a tale like Mai HiME we often don't look at the mental strain one goes through, we are going to make bad decisions and if we endure enough pain it's only going to drive us into deep psychosis.

While I did not always see eye to eye with her decisions she did lose Takumi to Mikoto's blade and I can easily see why she could go into a psychotic wrath. It's not like she butchered a bunch of old people who Tate hated and offered them as bizarre love gift to him.

I can't hate her during this time, but I found myself more interested in Natsuki's story during this ark, I must admit.

Midori Sugiura wrote:
While I did not always see eye to eye with her decisions she did lose Takumi to Mikoto's blade and I can easily see why she could go into a psychotic wrath. It's not like she butchered a bunch of old people who Tate hated and offered them as bizarre love gift to him.

I can't hate her during this time, but I found myself more interested in Natsuki's story during this ark, I must admit.

THIS.

Takumi's death blinds her pretty much but yea I remember not liking Mai during this time, she's made a lot of questionable decisions and it's really really hard to like her. I mean she's cool and all but this arc-- and the fact that she's really wishy-washy-- makes her really hard to like for me sometimes.

She's cool in otome tho xDDD

 

In short, I have sympathy to all the "tragic" HiME... Except for Shiho  

Midori Sugiura wrote:Personally I saw it as her mind had snapped, especially after Takumi's death, who was in essence the sole reason she released Kagutsuchi to begin with.

When one looks at a tale like Mai HiME we often don't look at the mental strain one goes through, we are going to make bad decisions and if we endure enough pain it's only going to drive us into deep psychosis.

While I did not always see eye to eye with her decisions she did lose Takumi to Mikoto's blade and I can easily see why she could go into a psychotic wrath. It's not like she butchered a bunch of old people who Tate hated and offered them as bizarre love gift to him.

I can't hate her during this time, but I found myself more interested in Natsuki's story during this ark, I must admit.

She thought it was Mikoto's blade, but I know what you're trying to say. Some people would be in her position as well, and I say "some" because not everyone reacts to the death of a loved one with rage. For the story's sake, I'm happy that Mai wasn't complete shattered by Takumi's demise. She was left lost and confused with no idea what to do next, symbolically showing that even with Takumi gone and remembering all his "what do you want out of life, sis?", she is still just as miserable as ever. There's no sense of freedom when her brother turned to green sparkles before her eyes, she needed more than ever. Yuuichi Tate became her own beacon of hope that somewhere in this dark reality, there might be a light she can embrace to start anew. The series could of ended like this with no one reviving and it would work...yet it would defeat the theme of Love.

Thanks for your insight, guys! I'm a hundred percent in favor of Mai's character here, it's just nice to read some opposite thoughts. Mai was nobody's champion at the height of the Carnival's tragedies. Her depressed state of mind and sheer anger were just as emotionally distraught as Shizuru's mass genocide (forgetting that it was First District that got killed). Either way, it made for excellent story.

It's a realistic approach to have her forget her other friends too, like Chie and Aoi. They were still at Fuuka Academy when Mai decided to go rogue and defeat any HiME in her way. Quite disturbing when you think of it that way, seeing how Kagutsuchi causes property damage like no other.

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:It's a realistic approach to have her forget her other friends too, like Chie and Aoi. They were still at Fuuka Academy when Mai decided to go rogue and defeat any HiME in her way. Quite disturbing when you think of it that way, seeing how Kagutsuchi causes property damage like no other.

So disturbing in fact that its helped Mai to find a nice place in my nightmares. Her and her beast. Regardless, after reading some of these I am a little more sympathetic towards Mai and her plight, though most of my sympathies usually go towards someone else on that island

I completely agree with this:

Midori Sugiura wrote:When one looks at a tale like Mai HiME we often don't look at the mental strain one goes through, we are going to make bad decisions and if we endure enough pain it's only going to drive us into deep psychosis.

Since childhood, Mai didn't have it easy. She made a promise to her dying mother to take care of Takumi, and add to this that Mai felt responsible for the death of her mother. It's such a huge burden of guilt on her heart. So it's no wonder that she devoted all of herself to this promise, the guilt combined with the love for Takumi led her on that path, and along the way, she just forgot how to to live for herself...

And during the Carnival, when she lost it... while, yeah, she blew up one of the Fuuka Academy buildings, aiming at Mikoto, who she thought killed Takumi... she did not think about the consequences that she could kill a lot of innocent students with that blast, her anger completely blinded her... Still, I just can't dislike her...

PostoronnimV wrote:And during the Carnival, when she lost it... while, yeah, she blew up one of the Fuuka Academy buildings, aiming at Mikoto, who she thought killed Takumi... she did not think about the consequences that she could kill a lot of innocent students with that blast, her anger completely blinded her... Still, I just can't dislike her...

Ice Silver Crystal wrote:hihi! we can safely say mental stress..
Considering Mai-san's mental state, it is surprising that she hasn't suffered from a complete mental breakdown before.
let us not forget before being a Hime Mai was riddled with sad memories, death of mother , sacrificing her own time for takumi-kun,.
Add that with the torture she had to go through under the Reito-san's game!!
it becomes clear that it was probably too much for an already fragile mind.

Precisely, ladies. I get the impression that Mai's actions struck a fear chord in Ice, while V-chan feels even more sympathetic to towards Tokiha. I have to comprehend both of you in this case. Mai always expressed a calm demeanor in the past; even fulfilling the role of peacekeeper. by talking Natsuki and Mikoto out of fighting...again. So when the time came to be hit in the face by life's unfairness, she couldn't handle it.

I guess this thread can attempt to expose the fans who thought Mai should of just stuck to her guns....*ahem*. It's difficult when you had such a tough life. Nothing wrong with disliking the character, but think for a minute how you would be in her situation. This is the absolute truth though: She was at her lowest point when she snapped and gave in to Nagi's babbling. Yet she was looked up to by her peers...it's up to you whether or not she let them down or just reacted like any human being would.

Personally, I'm glad she did not "woMAN UP" It made her story a lot more interesting.

To be closer to the topic... All in all, I love Mai's character, but I kinda didn't like in Mai that she was too emotional, hysterical even and instead of logical comprehension and sober assessment of the facts, her thinking was based on her emotions and she acted according to them... And Mai always needed someone to help her to get out of her emotional state and to push her in the right direction...

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:Mai always expressed a calm demeanor in the past; even fulfilling the role of peacekeeper. by talking Natsuki and Mikoto out of fighting...again. So when the time came to be hit in the face by life's unfairness, she couldn't handle it.

You're right, Luu!

Mai, indeed, tried to be a peacekeeper, but she didn't have the conviction in her voice/actions to actually stop any fight... even the wind did a better job at stopping Mikoto and Natsuki from fighting... Like you already pointed out, Mai is very indecisive by nature... and it was manifested in everything she did... And now that I think about it, Mai was not able to stop anyone from fighting, actually...  

For comparison, Natsuki can be cited as an example... In episode 20, when Mai and Mikoto were engaged in deathmatch... Natsuki with only few but right words was able to stop pendant-possessed Mikoto from killing Mai...

Finding the right words that should be certain and convincing that the other person could believe in them and heed them... Mai lacked it...

Natsuki with just one sentence was able to convince Nao to cooperate with the First District (ep. 15)...

Midori was able to convince Natsuki and Nao to join HiME-Sentai (ep. 16)...

But Natsuki and Midori are leaders by nature, so it's a bit unfair to compare them with Mai...

PostoronnimV wrote:To be closer to the topic... All in all, I love Mai's character, but I kinda didn't like in Mai that she was too emotional, hysterical even and instead of logical comprehension and sober assessment of the facts, her thinking was based on her emotions and she acted according to them... And Mai always needed someone to help her to get out of her emotional state and to push her in the right direction...

This could be a hidden reason why Midori appointed herself as leader of the HiME Sentai rather than Mai, lol. Mai's emotions spoke volumes in every scene involving danger. Some people probably wanted her to destroy Miyu and Alyssa when she had the chance for example. Natsuki played the role of the audience in that scene, screaming "FIRE!" at the screen. Mai just couldn't destroy them, especially the one who sung such beautiful music. :3

Natsuki comes to mind when you mention someone who can help Mai get out of an emotional state. When Tate went to green sparkle heaven, Natsuki insisted on embracing Mai so she wouldn't lose herself. Too late by that point, but at least she cared and had Mai serving her dinner later on. :)

PostoronnimV wrote:Mai, indeed, tried to be a peacekeeper, but she didn't have the conviction in her voice/actions to actually stop any fight... even the wind did a better job at stopping Mikoto and Natsuki from fighting...

I see EXACTLY what you did here.   

PostoronnimV wrote:Like you already pointed out, Mai is very indecisive by nature... and it was manifested in everything she did... And now that I think about it, Mai was not able to stop anyone from fighting, actually...  

For comparison, Natsuki can be cited as an example... In episode 20, when Mai and Mikoto were engaged in deathmatch... Natsuki with only few but right words was able to stop pendant-possessed Mikoto from killing Mai...

Finding the right words that should be certain and convincing that the other person could believe in them and heed them... Mai lacked it...

Natsuki with just one sentence was able to convince Nao to cooperate with the First District (ep. 15)...

Midori was able to convince Natsuki and Nao to join HiME-Sentai (ep. 16)...

But Natsuki and Midori are leaders by nature, so it's a bit unfair to compare them with Mai...

And in that episode 20 duel, Natsuki brought up the emotion of love which Mikoto doesn't quite understand yet. You're right about the natural leadership of Natsuki and Midori, though it would be nice to make the comparison post Mai-HiME. If Sunrise were smart, Mai wouldn't be having any emotional issues or trauma. She's always been stronger in power/CHILD than Natsuki and Midori combined; now that she's sure of herself, I'm certain she can be a leader now. XD This is a completely different topic, but knowing Mai-HiME's 10-year anniversary is on the rise, I couldn't help myself.

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:She's always been stronger in power/CHILD than Natsuki and Midori combined

Yup, this is indisputable... More - I am sure that Mai was the most powerful HiME (ability-wise and Child-wise, I mean)... And, yeah, she (potential-wise) can be a leader, but, it seems to me, she herself just doesn't want to be a leader of any kind... Mai does not have a leader type of character, imo... Though it would have been nice to see a Mai who's sure of herself =)))

PostoronnimV wrote:

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:She's always been stronger in power/CHILD than Natsuki and Midori combined

Yup, this is indisputable... More - I am sure that Mai was the most powerful HiME (ability-wise and Child-wise, I mean)... And, yeah, she (potential-wise) can be a leader, but, it seems to me, she herself just doesn't want to be a leader of any kind... Mai does not have a leader type of character, imo... Though it would have been nice to see a Mai who's sure of herself =)))

You're right. The idea of assembling a team together makes her feel awkward.



See? She never outright says it, but you can tell she's relieved whenever Midori takes command. The only time Mai wants to take command is to schedule karaoke jams.

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:

See? She never outright says it, but you can tell she's relieved whenever Midori takes command. The only time Mai wants to take command is to schedule karaoke jams.

So true =))) Just look at that happy face...

PostoronnimV wrote:
So true =))) Just look at that happy face...

Now that's the face of a leader.   Not bad, V-chan. :'D

She=s a 16 year old whose life and loved ones are constantly in peril! That said... Compared to the other ones she turns on you a lot faster and without warning!

CaptainVonCookie wrote:She=s a 16 year old whose life and loved ones are constantly in peril! That said... Compared to the other ones she turns on you a lot faster and without warning!

:'D That time of the month? A deadly ingredient with Mai's emotions. You're right though, Cap, she does switch from sadness to kill mode at the drop of a hat. Nao's worse though, so Mai shouldn't feel too bad. :'D

  : Uh. Yeah. That makes me feel a lot like better.

  : BUTTER!?

  : Better.

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:
:'D That time of the month? A deadly ingredient with Mai's emotions. You're right though, Cap, she does switch from sadness to kill mode at the drop of a hat. Nao's worse though, so Mai shouldn't feel too bad. :'D

  : Uh. Yeah. That makes me feel a lot like better.

  : BUTTER!?

  : Better.

Oh yeah... Had forgotten about Nao's bratty attitude. But you know, depression76 said it best:

depression76 wrote:
THIS.

Takumi's death blinds her pretty much but yea I remember not liking Mai during this time, she's made a lot of questionable decisions and it's really really hard to like her. I mean she's cool and all but this arc-- and the fact that she's really wishy-washy-- makes her really hard to like for me sometimes.

She's cool in otome tho xDDD

 

Mai's boring to watch sometimes. She's the type of character I don't like as a main one.

CaptainVonCookie wrote:
Mai's boring to watch sometimes. She's the type of character I don't like as a main one.

Kind of goes back to our old Natsuki vs. Mai discussion. Mai's character is too serious, while Natsuki can offer serious and slapstick humor for her sick and perverted audience.  

  Usssssssssssss~