What Kind of Person was Saeko Kuga?

There's nothing about this woman except from what John Smith had talk about her. Speculations are everywhere, but lets try to discuss to find out more about this woman.

My opinion of Saeko might be strongly influenced by the fandom, since I don't know much about her just from wathing HiME. But imo, I think she's a good mother, who unluckily was working with the wrong people...

Watcha guys think?

depression76 wrote:There's nothing about this woman except from what John Smith had talk about her. Speculations are everywhere, but lets try to discuss to find out more about this woman.

Gathering everything that you know, what kind of person was Saeko Kuga?

My opinion of Saeko might be strongly influenced by the fandom, since I don't know much about her just from wathing HiME. But imo, I think she's a good mother, who unluckily was working with the wrong people...

Watcha guys think?

:3 I assume you're talking about the anime version? Since that's the more mysterious incarnation. Being a doctor, she must of been an extremely intelligent woman who wanted the best for her family. As most know, the manga turned Saeko in a straight forward villain, so we can assume Saeko may have been duped by First District. I'd like to actually SEE the supposed transaction between Saeko and SEARRS. Not that it matters anymore, anime Saeko will always be an enigma to me. However, it's clear that she was always a good mother prior to any suspicious event of Mai-HiME. Natsuki Kuga grew up happy and carefree, as seen in the episode 9 flashback.

Well, my opinion will be very different...

I think, Saeko was a bad mother...

Because no matter what the circumstances, no normal mother would sell her child as some kind of thing... And their family, as I gathered, were fairly wealthy... though even if they weren't, this is still not a good excuse...

Of course, maybe John Smith lied to Natsuki, but Sakomizu's reaction showed, that Smith told the truth...

And what good could come from selling Natsuki? Saeko was not a stupid woman, she should have known or, at least, suspect why and for what purpose such an organization wants to buy Natsuki, the HiME... Plus, as we know, she was already working on the Searrs Foundation for quite some time before she was exposed/uncovered by the First District...

Episode 22 (when Smith came to inform about what may affect the outcome of the carnival - i.e. Miyu)

So why sell, if her goal was to protect, and not to carry out experimentation? Why not ask for protection instead?

Saeko also devoted more time to her work, than to Natsuki... And the fact that Natsuki's father abandoned his child at the most difficult time, when she most needed him, shows that their family was just a zilch to being with...

Though I do not think, that Natsuki was unhappy... kids love their parents unconditionally and Natsuki was pretty happy with what little she was given, because she did not know any better...

And maybe Saeko had loved her, but not as her child, but as a favorite experiment...

PostoronnimV wrote:Well, my opinion will be very different...

I think, Saeko was a bad mother...

Because no matter what the circumstances, no normal mother would sell her child as some kind of thing... And their family, as I gathered, were fairly wealthy... though even if they weren't, this is still not a good excuse...

Of course, maybe John Smith lied to Natsuki, but Sakomizu's reaction showed, that Smith told the truth...

And what good could come from selling Natsuki? Saeko was not a stupid woman, she should have known or, at least, suspect why and for what purpose such an organization wants to buy Natsuki, the HiME... Plus, as we know, she was already working on the Searrs Foundation for quite some time before she was exposed/uncovered by the First District...

Episode 22 (when Smith came to inform about what may affect the outcome of the carnival - i.e. Miyu)

So why sell, if her goal was to protect, and not to carry out experimentation? Why not ask for protection instead?

Saeko also devoted more time to her work, than to Natsuki... And the fact that Natsuki's father abandoned his child at the most difficult time, when she most needed him, shows that their family was just a zilch to being with...

Though I do not think, that Natsuki was unhappy... kids love their parents unconditionally and Natsuki was pretty happy with what little she was given, because she did not know any better...

And maybe Saeko had loved her, but not as her child, but as a favorite experiment...

Let me add more to this, It would be safe to say Natsuki part of the family have ties First District(i.e. affiliated with the government). There's was no way to escape for Dr. Saeko but the only person she could trust Dr. Sakomizu her colleague and friend who been with her through hell and worse than hell.

I guess all family members were District One lackeys and scientist to other branches of Japan that could be a reason. No wonder John Smith had no shame telling Natsuki the truth and putting the shame on Sakomizu.

Everything said about Dr. Kuga was everything on the dot and I wouldn't be shocked that Saeko is alive, both organizations do know she's a prized possession and arc of what could use for any type of materialization.

The real question is did the government really knew true purpose of the HiME's instead fighting each other for an pathetic alien being that would give a country that would give more prosperous?

Because no matter what the circumstances, no normal mother would sell her child as some kind of thing... And their family, as I gathered, were fairly wealthy... though even if they weren't, this is still not a good excuse...

True. This part of Saeko Kuga's actions was inexcusable. We just don't know enough from Saeko's perspective to fully rule her out as a villain/bad mother for her actions. If she had more scenes showing her dealings with First District, I could paint a better picture for her overall character.

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:True. This part of Saeko Kuga's actions was inexcusable. We just don't know enough from Saeko's perspective to fully rule her out as a villain/bad mother for her actions. If she had more scenes showing her dealings with First District, I could paint a better picture for her overall character.

You're right, of course... We don't have enough information about Saeko to say anything with 100% certainty... It's just... I can not find an answer that would justify her actions even a little bit to the question: "What good could come from selling Natsuki for Natsuki?"

And all answers/conclusions to which I came is not in favor of Saeko being a good mother...

We know, that she already worked for the Searrs Foundation for quite some time (and even managed to help to create Miyu) before she was disclosed by the First District... So she most likely knew where the Searrs Foundation's interests lie... therefore she could guess for what reasons they buy Natsuki -> as weapon+as test subject for research...

Also she devoted herself to her work more than to Natsuki... By itself, this fact does not say anything, but coupled with what was written above... this fact acquires a negative connotation and begs the conclusion, that she was in the first place a scientist/researcher (her priorities were lying in it) and only then a mother.

Plus, Natsuki's name means "Summer Princess"... it certainly can be a coincidence, that Saeko chose this particular name to her... but she could know, that Natsuki was a HiME and, if she gave her such a name, she probably was glad/proud, that Natsuki was born a HiME (and we know from "Natsuki no Prelude", that Saeko called Natsuki "my princess" sometimes)... which somewhat shatters the theory, that Saeko wanted to save Natsuki from the fate of a HiME...

PostoronnimV wrote:Plus, Natsuki's name means "Summer Princess"... it certainly can be a coincidence, that Saeko chose this particular name to her... but she could know, that Natsuki was a HiME and, if she gave her such a name, she probably was glad/proud, that Natsuki was born a HiME (and we know from "Natsuki no Prelude", that Saeko called Natsuki "my princess" sometimes)... which somewhat shatters the theory, that Saeko wanted to save Natsuki from the fate of a HiME...

I repeat, until Sunrise can elaborate on Saeko as a whole (not just from her confirmed actions), she will continue being a mystery. THE great mystery as far as the Mai-HiME universe goes. Why Saeko would go through with such an act is more interesting than even Mashiro's origins. As blasphemous as that may sound...

Omg!!! I wanna get in on this!!! I need to re-watch the show though... I don't think I remember everything all that clearly. I do remember them leaving Saeko's reasoning as a mystery on purpose for Kuga's storyline. And it being mentioned in Natsuki's prelude. (though I'm not sure of this anymore)

If I had to fill in the gaps, I would say she was a dedicated scientist first. She was shown to bring Natsuki to work like a regular career woman, but also investigating her. Selling her daughter and then escaping with her before handing her over could be viewed either as 1. Regret and starting to see her daughter as a priority over her research and not only as a subject matter. Or 2. Both a mother and a scientist who would use her daughter for her investigations harmlessly and was cornered by a very big and powerful company to give up her daughter nicely or else. And bluffing her way out until she could get her daughter in a car and drive away.
I lean more towards the second choice, the first one doesn't make sense. The backstory showed could support my second theory.
Or she was a crazy scientist that inhaled too many toxic substances and was high 90% of the time.

CaptainVonCookie wrote:
Or she was a crazy scientist that inhaled too many toxic substances and was high 90% of the time.

I likes this theory.

Watch the series again again, Cap. It raises argument for both sides of the fence. On one hand, Saeko did the unthinkable that would easily earn her "Bad Mom Award". On the other hand, there is a hint of regret on her part in the flashback of her getaway. Saeko knew about the HiME on top fo that, probably knew her daughter is/would become one of them. So there's a lot to consider before ruling out the type of person she really was. As opposed to the manga where Saeko is clearly evil. :'3 No shades of grey there.

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:

CaptainVonCookie wrote:
Or she was a crazy scientist that inhaled too many toxic substances and was high 90% of the time.

I likes this theory.

Watch the series again again, Cap. It raises argument for both sides of the fence. On one hand, Saeko did the unthinkable that would easily earn her "Bad Mom Award". On the other hand, there is a hint of regret on her part in the flashback of her getaway. Saeko knew about the HiME on top fo that, probably knew her daughter is/would become one of them. So there's a lot to consider before ruling out the type of person she really was. As opposed to the manga where Saeko is clearly evil. :'3 No shades of grey there.

And it wouldn't shocked me that Saeko Kuga had powers before she had Natsuki

Highman wrote:And it wouldn't shocked me that Saeko Kuga had powers before she had Natsuki

What are you trying to say? That Saeko might of been a HiME with Natsuki's arsenal when she was in her teens? =p

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:

Highman wrote:And it wouldn't shocked me that Saeko Kuga had powers before she had Natsuki

What are you trying to say? That Saeko might of been a HiME with Natsuki's arsenal when she was in her teens? =p

Yes,in my own mind believe that generations of HiME were passed down from nobility to peasants who're blessed, gifted or watched by the Obsidian Lord for what purposes maybe. It's dead ringer HiME's were passed down only to protect loved ones and their lands against evil greatest adversaries. Magic, technology and other elements have the focal point to keep Earth strong. Nagi and Mashiro have known about this before Mashiro ancestors had to deal with fate.

There's more to this story than HiME's fighting each other than a marriage proposal.

Highman wrote:Yes,in my own mind believe that generations of HiME were passed down from nobility to peasants who're blessed, gifted or watched by the Obsidian Lord for what purposes maybe. It's dead ringer HiME's were passed down only to protect loved ones and their lands against evil greatest adversaries. Magic, technology and other elements have the focal point to keep Earth strong. Nagi and Mashiro have known about this before Mashiro ancestors had to deal with fate.

There's more to this story than HiME's fighting each other than a marriage proposal.

That's just it though! Whoever proceeded Natsuki as an ice element HiME, must of been hundreds of years prior to Saeko's birth. :) On the other hand, I can buy the idea that one of Natsuki's ancestors could of been Duran's master.

Not saying you're wrong, it's just that there are other possibilities.

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:

Highman wrote:Yes,in my own mind believe that generations of HiME were passed down from nobility to peasants who're blessed, gifted or watched by the Obsidian Lord for what purposes maybe. It's dead ringer HiME's were passed down only to protect loved ones and their lands against evil greatest adversaries. Magic, technology and other elements have the focal point to keep Earth strong. Nagi and Mashiro have known about this before Mashiro ancestors had to deal with fate.

There's more to this story than HiME's fighting each other than a marriage proposal.

That's just it though! Whoever proceeded Natsuki as an ice element HiME, must of been hundreds of years prior to Saeko's birth. :) On the other hand, I can buy the idea that one of Natsuki's ancestors could of been Duran's master.

Not saying you're wrong, it's just that there are other possibilities.

well I wouldn't mind to share those theories to me Luu-kun!

Highman wrote:
well I wouldn't mind to share those theories to me Luu-kun!

I don't think I can theorize on who was the ice HiME before Natsuki. What I can theorize is that Saeko Kuga had a very long history in studying the HiME legend, sort of like Arika's father, Shiro. Did she know her own daughter would eventually become one of the Valkyries? That remains up in the air.

Saeko's willingness to accept payment for giving/bringing Natsuki to Searrs reflects somewhat poorly on her, but let's remember Alyssa's line to Nagi in Episode 15: "I wonder who the cruel ones really are..." From Saeko's perspective, Searrs may well have appeared to offer her daughter a better future than First District did.

Darthtabby wrote:Saeko's willingness to accept payment for giving/bringing Natsuki to Searrs reflects somewhat poorly on her, but let's remember Alyssa's line to Nagi in Episode 15: "I wonder who the cruel ones really are..." From Saeko's perspective, Searrs may well have appeared to offer her daughter a better future than First District did.

That whole line really change the altering moment of when shit became REAL

Darthtabby wrote:Saeko's willingness to accept payment for giving/bringing Natsuki to Searrs reflects somewhat poorly on her, but let's remember Alyssa's line to Nagi in Episode 15: "I wonder who the cruel ones really are..." From Saeko's perspective, Searrs may well have appeared to offer her daughter a better future than First District did.

Anyone with direct connection to the Obsidian Lord and the Carnival should technically be considered worse, right? I can't disagree with that notion as First District does strike me as the bigger heels/threat than SEARRS.

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:

Darthtabby wrote:Saeko's willingness to accept payment for giving/bringing Natsuki to Searrs reflects somewhat poorly on her, but let's remember Alyssa's line to Nagi in Episode 15: "I wonder who the cruel ones really are..." From Saeko's perspective, Searrs may well have appeared to offer her daughter a better future than First District did.

Anyone with direct connection to the Obsidian Lord and the Carnival should technically be considered worse, right? I can't disagree with that notion as First District does strike me as the bigger heels/threat than SEARRS.

The funny thing is Kaji even kinda jokingly happily believes that organization truly dissolves. If that's the case, then I feel Kaji pain for not saving Dr. Saeko life or worse losing a young Natsuki in the process. He knows deep down, If the organization dies than Japan dies along with it, I'm really interested of HiME's, other types of materialization classes are involved with ageless warring areas and nobles (some may not, but we think we know something). There's so much to this and where will HiME's purpose really is.

Darthtabby wrote:Saeko's willingness to accept payment for giving/bringing Natsuki to Searrs reflects somewhat poorly on her, but let's remember Alyssa's line to Nagi in Episode 15: "I wonder who the cruel ones really are..." From Saeko's perspective, Searrs may well have appeared to offer her daughter a better future than First District did.

Well, I think, this is only partially true... Maybe she thought that with Searrs, Natsuki did have a better chance of winning plus with the aid from Miyu(which she helped to create)... But... Very big but!... if Saeko did have only pure/good intentions in regard to Natsuki's well-being, then why she sold her as some kind of thing/test subject? She could have just bring Natsuki to Searrs without any selling. Plus, she had secretly worked for the Searrs Foundation long enough to understand that they're no better than the First District. I think, Searrs attracted her, mainly cuz they were very interested in researches and experimentations on everything that relates to the HiMEs subject, in contrast to the First District. And Saeko, as a scientist, could not and did not want to pass up this opportunity, imo.

Highman wrote:The funny thing is Kaji even kinda jokingly happily believes that organization truly dissolves.

I think, the First District has really ceased to exist, the Obsidian Lord took care of it.

PostoronnimV wrote:

Highman wrote:The funny thing is Kaji even kinda jokingly happily believes that organization truly dissolves.

I think, the First District has really ceased to exist, the Obsidian Lord took care of it.

Hardly is the word your going to look up on wiki, I would take a 60/40 percent of chance First District still operates on their own will not taking orders on a overrated/overdue sentinel being who can make threats and not being the smart eviler being than he is. Otherwise, IF the being IS smarter enough than tell about me this:


Well then, I think this we both answered our questions right there

Highman wrote:Hardly is the word your going to look up on wiki, I would take a 60/40 percent of chance First District still operates on their own will not taking orders on a overrated/overdue sentinel being who can make threats and not being the smart eviler being than he is. Otherwise, IF the being IS smarter enough than tell about me this:
...
Well then, I think this we both answered our questions right there

Errr... sorry, I didn't get what you're trying to say... what this video proves exactly?

And I think, that Mashiro revived only the fallen HiMEs and their loved ones. But even if she also revived people from the First District, I still do not think, that the First District will continue to exist, cuz the First District was ideological secret society/organization, their whole existence was built and revolved around the HiME Carnival and its support (they probably had some kind of arrangements with the Obsidian Lord initially). And since their foundation was knocked from under the feet (the OL was destroyed, the HiMEs powers disappeared, there will be no more HiME carnivals), this organization just would fall apart like a house of cards.

And my main argument... Mai-Hime is a mainstream product (it's not an art house product, where if someone picked his or her nose, it may carry a hidden meaning/message). So no need to dig deeper than necessary... if openly was said, that Saeko is dead, it actually means Saeko is dead, if openly was said, that the First District had ceased to exist, it means the First District had ceased to exist.

PostoronnimV wrote:
Errr... sorry, I didn't get what you're trying to say... what this video proves exactly?

And I think, that Mashiro revived only the fallen HiMEs and their loved ones. But even if she also revived people from the First District, I still do not think, that the First District will continue to exist, cuz the First District was ideological secret society/organization, their whole existence was built and revolved around the HiME Carnival and its support (they probably had some kind of arrangements with the Obsidian Lord initially). And since their foundation was knocked from under the feet (the OL was destroyed, the HiMEs powers disappeared, there will be no more HiME carnivals), this organization just would fall apart like a house of cards.

And my main argument... Mai-Hime is a mainstream product (it's not an art house product, where if someone picked his or her nose, it may carry a hidden meaning/message). So no need to dig deeper than necessary... if openly was said, that Saeko is dead, it actually means Saeko is dead, if openly was said, that the First District had ceased to exist, it means the First District had ceased to exist.

I think I just wasted your weekend with that my post on trying to understand. I'll clarify in short detail still First District operates in new charge possible joint work with SEARRS Foundation on obtain more power, the members of First District have only revenge on their minds against Shizuru and OL remnants who seen in the video have replica of Black Mountain(Otome mini-special), whatever their plan is deadly in my opinion. Also remember this in the last episode when Nagi/Mashiro left, both of them knew the Carnival wasn't the real factor and HiME have a huge dilemma to save or destroy the world. Mashiro said this" It's up to the girls to decide what to do." In the end, I do believe Mashiro gave'em another gift is returning their HiME powers and face whatever challenges that would be a threat to Fuuka.

And the towards Mai HiME being a mainstream product, did I ever,ever mention bout Mai-franchise being a mainstream product. Of course it is a mainstream and still storylines are a factor to the franchise itself and Yes, Dr. Saeko maybe dead but where's the proof, where's the BEEF and why did Kaiji didn't pay the funeral arrangements is he truly the worst sidekick scientist/full time-teacher in all of mankind, JESUS CHRIST!!!!! :shock:

Conspiracy theory? Mai Hime is the new X-Files?