Arika and Nina's love for Sergay. Approve?

by **Luu Sky Sapphire** Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:13 pm

Can't believe I'm going to say this, but...

arika - Arika and Nina's love for Sergay. Approve? Pdvd_015

...was this guy worth it?

As some of you may know, Midori-sama (my Komu-obsessed gf...)began watching Mai-Otome for the first time. We completed the 4th volume last night, where Arika started to develop strong feelings for Sergay. So much that the poor Ant keeps walking into walls (more so than usual) and just spaces out. Midori then witnessed the scene with Arika and Sergay, where we thought they kissed each other in a romantic way until later on, we were shown different. And of course, we know how Nina feels about her "father" before that occurred. Now Midori can tell you her feelings on the subject soon, as for me, I have mixed feelings about it.

I'm not one to denounce love of any kind, unless the love was formed due to feelings of hatred and vengeance against another. Which isn't the case here, although the age difference could make viewers of Mai-Otome feel uneasy. When I first watched Mai-Otome, I felt the father/daughter relationship between Sergay and Nina was really special, especially after the Birthday episode. To picture them as a couple, much to Nina's desire is a bit strange. Strange because you built your relationship with someone as a daughter, now you want to be his lover? I'd be on Team Arika here, if it weren't for the fact that she's a bit young too. Then again, I somewhat accept it now. Like Alex said in the Kuttsukiboshi thread, it's realistic for these kind of relationships to happen, even if we don't find them normal.

My final verdict is undecided. ^^;

by **SpiderNeKoHiME** Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:19 pm

approve! :3 are we going to deny we were in love someone older? male or female?
Arika-chan shouldn't of kept her mind on Sergay during her otome competitions and a debacle between nations. that so much is true. Really tho, how can you blame her? and it's so sweet (and futile) that Nina-chan wants to go a step further. they aren't related, why not?

by **Luu Sky Sapphire** Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:24 am

SpiderNeKoHiME wrote:they aren't related, why not?[/color]

Yes, why not? There's just one itty bitty problem I have. Nina grew up with Sergay as her father. A father. Her being a daughter, suddenly loving her father does seem off. If I can somehow get over that, then I can agree with you. >_< In the meantime, I don't approve.

by Kino karutta-chan Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:17 pm

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:
SpiderNeKoHiME wrote:they aren't related, why not?

Yes, why not? There's just one itty bitty problem I have. Nina grew up with Sergay as her father. A father. Her being a daughter, suddenly loving her father does seem off. If I can somehow get over that, then I can agree with you. >_< In the meantime, I don't approve.

I have to disagree with you here. In my opinion it wasn't suddenly at all. You remember the scene where Sergay gave little Nina the watch?? She looked totally happy. Yeah, you could say it was because her "father" gave her a present, but I think it was more than that. Maybe she just realized later that it was love *shrug*

Oh, I can't say the same thing of the point of view from Sergay. We all know the scene (if we haven't forgotten it XD) where Nina trys to sleep with him, but he doesn't do it in the end. Real father or not, he was her father in some way...

Anyway I have to agree with Megan, but that doesn't mean that I like the relationship(s) between Sergay and Nina / Sergay and Arika (just because I can't make myself like Segay :/ and I can't think of any reasons why I don't like him :/)
If you aren't that blind you can see that Arika really loves Sergay, I just wondering, if it was the same in the end of Mai Otome since there wasn't any other situation that we watcher could see it, was there??

by Kicchu Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:31 pm

Yeah, I'm probably gonna be beaten with a stick after this, but I disagree with their relationship completely... At least at the point they're at now.

I do believe age is just a number... after a point. Don't get me wrong, I definitely enjoy teacher/student relationship stories, though that also has a limit to me and depends on how it's told. The problem with Arika x Sergay or Nina x Sergay is that they are still REALLY young. Their minds aren't even completely developed. Heck, most human minds don't even fully develop until around the age of 25. They haven't lived their lives, gained any experience in simply LIVING at that age. Yes, I know it's different in anime/manga and that it's fantasy, but I still focus on real life facts. Let me use my sister for an example. She ran off with her older boyfriend as soon as she graduated high school and, though he was abusive, supplied everything for her, making her not have to think for herself. Even after she escaped him, the damage done to her mind at that point is practically irreversible. She never had to work, therefore she didn't want to work or even know how. This mindset continues even today and she feels that the only way she CAN survive is if she's wish a man, abusive or not. That's just how her mind finished developing.

If Arika x Sergay or Nina x Sergay were to happen, they first need to learn to relay on themselves and grow up independently first. Being involved with an older man while they're still kids would disrupt their development, in my opinion. Especially Nina who has viewed Sergay as both a father and a potential lover... Yeah, I know I shouldn't bring psychology and sociology into the mix for an anime, but you would be surprised just what every little thing does to a developing mind.

...Sorry for my pointless rambling. ;-;

by **Ice Silver Crystal** Sun Sep 12, 2010 2:14 am

I'm with Kicchu-san. Don't apologize for giving your opinion, that's why this forum is here (right, da?) ^.^; You can't support girls who aren't mentally authorized to make snap decisions like falling in love with Sergay. Their minds aren't developed, they don't fully understand the concept of true love. Irrational girls their age (I should know) they fall into the trap of love at first sight. Several fans consider this love possible due to the fact that Mai Otome is fantasy based. Wrong. These are real feelings caused by immature hearts. My sympathies for you sister, Kicchu-san. -_- My girlfriend of 5 years did the same to me. *sigh*

by **Luu Sky Sapphire** Mon Sep 13, 2010 12:59 pm

I'll have to agree Ice and Kicchu. I didn't even take their young mindset into consideration. My roommate Mitchie brought to up me something interesting, don't Arika and Sergay have the same age gap as Usagi and Mamoru from Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon? I think Sergay is a bit older than Mamoru, not 100% sure. Anyway, if I look at it that way, then I take back what I said about Arika x Sergay. If I had no problem with Usagi x Mamoru, then this could work too.

I stand by what I said about Sergay x Nina, the relationship is rooted in family so much, it's hard to accept it any other way.

by **Ice Silver Crystal** Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:59 pm

Chiba Mamoru was in his 20 and in University, dating a 14 year old. It's reminiscent of Sergay with Arika, tis' true. Didn't like Usagi with Mamoru to begin with so I cannot take back my opinion. ^.^ Not saying you're wrong Luu-san, you made a good point.

by **Luu Sky Sapphire** Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:48 pm

Haha, I know. No stress, Ice. The topic is also about whether or not you like either ship to begin with. Wink

by Midori Sugiura99 Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:32 pm

((Disagree disagree disagree x 10. I don't care if they aren't related by blood, she fell in love with her father figure. And still calling him "Otou-san" and being in love with him... ug, it just leaves such a creepy feeling. And likewise, sexing up someone you thought of as your daughter since she was a very young girl? Creepy and wrong. Their relationship crosses so many lines. Its not the age at all that bothers me, its what they are to each other in their relationship. Father/daughterness does not equal sexual love.))

by **Luu Sky Sapphire** Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:57 pm

Rosalie Lamorlière wrote:((Disagree disagree disagree x 10. I don't care if they aren't related by blood, she fell in love with her father figure. And still calling him "Otou-san" and being in love with him... ug, it just leaves such a creepy feeling. And likewise, sexing up someone you thought of as your daughter since she was a very young girl? Creepy and wrong. Their relationship crosses so many lines. Its not the age at all that bothers me, its what they are to each other in their relationship. Father/daughterness does not equal sexual love.))

(( Agreed. I'll be gentle with Nina and say her heart was in the right place, those feelings were very true and genuine. If only they were pointed at someone else instead. With Sergay's memory loss in Zwei, she didn't have the same feelings for him anymore. She wanted her "father" back, which still bothers me to this day.))

by MidnightPersona Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:32 am

Disapprove of both. The father thing gets to me cuz that'd be like me going after my step-dad. Eww? And disapprove of Arika because Arika works better with Mashiro... and Mashiro is awesome!

But age is just a number to me, mostly. We all know my rule is "If it's Legal, it's on." But even I have my limits with things. I tend to follow a legal/10-year rule. If they're within 10 years of my age (and legal) then they're a go.

by Amaya Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:26 am

Disapprove I want a gay Nina. Normally I am against making all characters gay but Nina should have been. This father-love thing is very disturbing

by **Luu Sky Sapphire** Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:29 am

MidnightPersona wrote:Disapprove of both. The father thing gets to me cuz that'd be like me going after my step-dad. Eww? And disapprove of Arika because Arika works better with Mashiro... and Mashiro is awesome!

But age is just a number to me, mostly. We all know my rule is "If it's Legal, it's on." But even I have my limits with things. I tend to follow a legal/10-year rule. If they're within 10 years of my age (and legal) then they're a go.

It's something I wouldn't do if I were him. Younger girls are just so...bleh. Remember that woman Sergay was flirting with near the beginning of episode 1? That's more like it.

by **Intensely Playing Peridot** Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:47 pm

I don't think Arika was in love with Sergay anyway. I think she had a little crush on him yes, but back when you had your first crush at that age didn't you think you where totally in love? I think it just effected her so much because it was the first time in her life she was REALLY thinking of what her dream of being an Otome meant, she couldn't have the little girls dream of the handsome prince on a white horse anymore. As for Nina... that one is harder. Lets look at some of the facts, Nina wasn't a baby when he took her in, so some of though fatherly imprinting years where missed. He really isn't old enough to be her biological father (I think, how old is he anyway?) She calls him father but in fact she may have NEVER looked at him as her father, just the man who saved her from her life before and gave her all the love she ever wanted. As for the end where she wanted him back as her father, I don't think she meant so much as she wanted her FATHER back, as much as she wanted SERGAY back, with all his memories and everything gone I doubt he is acting acting like the man she fell in love with, peoples memories are what make them who they are, sure Segay's body was there, but the man himself wasn't.

by **Luu Sky Sapphire** Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:45 pm

Intensely Playing Peridot wrote:I don't think Arika was in love with Sergay anyway. I think she had a little crush on him yes, but back when you had your first crush at that age didn't you think you where totally in love? I think it just effected her so much because it was the first time in her life she was REALLY thinking of what her dream of being an Otome meant, she couldn't have the little girls dream of the handsome prince on a white horse anymore. As for Nina... that one is harder. Lets look at some of the facts, Nina wasn't a baby when he took her in, so some of though fatherly imprinting years where missed. He really isn't old enough to be her biological father (I think, how old is he anyway?) She calls him father but in fact she may have NEVER looked at him as her father, just the man who saved her from her life before and gave her all the love she ever wanted. As for the end where she wanted him back as her father, I don't think she meant so much as she wanted her FATHER back, as much as she wanted SERGAY back, with all his memories and everything gone I doubt he is acting acting like the man she fell in love with, peoples memories are what make them who they are, sure Segay's body was there, but the man himself wasn't.

You do make several good points, Peridot. Nina is simply in love with a man, that she knows isn't related by blood (doi). So we can understand her personal road to someday be more than just father and daughter. And no, I don't believe Sergay's age at that time was ever mentioned. Probably in the artbooks, if anyone has the scans for confirmation.

I wasn't Nina's age when I had my first crush with an older woman, who happened to be my 35 year old goddess of an English IV teacher, but it's basically the same logic.

by **Magus Phantalus** Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:08 am

Gotta say I found this little love triangle to very disturbing the age gap was just too much. The way Sergay acted aswell was just terrible. It didn't come off to me as a tragic misunderstood love but a very disturbing scenario. I can see some parallels between Sergay and Nina and Shizuru and Natsuki but one thing rings loud and clear.

Nina chose to be an Otome Shizuru didn't choose to be a Hime. If Nina decided not to be an otome and distance herself from Sergay in an attempt to sever the child/parent bond I might have sympathized with her more.

I also acknowledge Nagi's influence was also a parallel to the influence of the Obsidian Star but even then it is still hard for me to sympathize with Nina. The age gap, the father daughter dynamic, and the fact that Nina flew off the handle a lot faster than expected just doesn't garner a lot of sympathy from me.

Also as stated before a teenagers mind is not fully developed until the mid twenties and even then I question if some adults are fully developed. And for the record I also don't approve of Shizuru's flirting with the young girls as well.(c'mon Shizuru you can get any woman you want AND Natsuki in bed any time stop goin for the jail bait!) Natsuki Kuga

by **SpiralDasher** Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:24 am

Approve of incestuous pedophilia? No.

"But they aren't related by blood!" Doesn't matter. Family comes from the feelings of being brought up or nurturing into adulthood someone who cares for you/someone you care for. Sergay adopted and brought Nina up and raised her as a daughter.

I don't care so much about the age as I do the family factor (but I'm still against pedophilia so I disapprove of that part too.) If they were, say, twenty one and thirty seven, I wouldn't be against it, but Nina and Arika or like what, fourteen? No.

(... -also a Nina/Erstin shipper-)

by **Midori Sugiura** Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:10 am

I am truly torn over this one, on one half I see it as a loving relationship between father and step-daughter, they're not biologically related so it's...kind of okay

On the other hand I see it as slightly gross, with the age difference and all that, but who am I to judge My parents are 14 years apart in age and happily married, with only one major inconvenience in life,
that would be I say proudly

by **IlliterateKoi** Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:33 am

Midori Sugiura wrote:I am truly torn over this one, on one half I see it as a loving relationship between father and step-daughter, they're not biologically related so it's...kind of okay

On the other hand I see it as slightly gross, with the age difference and all that, but who am I to judge My parents are 14 years apart in age and happily married, with only one major inconvenience in life,
that would be I say proudly

My issue with it isn't the age gap by itself, but the fact that Nina and Arika are so young. If they were older but the age gap was the same I would probably think differently about it, but I don't really have an issue with age gaps in general.

With Nina the fact that Sergay is her father makes it really weird to me, even if they aren't actually related by blood it's still a father/daughter relationship in my eyes. But I doubt that Nina actually sees him as a father figure, despite what she calls him, so you could argue that it isn't an important factor in things. Her age is still the main issue in this for me really.

by **Luu Sky Sapphire** Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:12 pm

Kaichou Koi, say Sergay were a female character instead. Mother; if you will. Would you feel any differently with Nina's relationship and feelings towards her guardian?

by **shezaei-neko** Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:09 pm

This neko does not approve this one.
Not really due to the age difference but because of the relationship they had from the begining.
I mean, if Nina didn't consider him as a father, it'd be fine. Maybe like a tutor or something else, but not a parent figure.
Also I think that the age gap is higher than the one with Usagi and Mamoru.
If it were something like in Card Captor Sakura where one of Sakura's friends is in love with her teacher, then it wouldn't be a problem...

And also I don't approve what he was doing with Arika either. He was just fantasizing his youth crush with her. Being Lena's daughter and all, he was just being obssesed with it. If he didn't get a shot with the mother, then the daughter should do, don't you think?
To me that what it looked like. I don't really think he saw Arika for what she was, but the shadow of Lena and the past feelings he had for her.
Which led him to believe he felt something special for Arika.
He helped her just because she was Lena's daughter, if he hadn't known, she'd just be another of Nina's classmates and that's it.

I don't see him as someone worthy for all the troubles the girls went through.

by **CaptainVonCookie** Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:17 am

Ohhh I completely missed this discussion! Got tricked by its title!

I don't ship any of them with him. I have to say he does look like a nice guy but trying something with an underage girl put him on my black book and I have no respect for the guy even if he stopped himself with Nina.

Had they all been of age I wouldn't have a problem with either Arika or Nina being with him. I'd still prefer them with someone else though. Age is only a number, but it needs to be consensual and kids can't give consent to adults. Dude should just wait until they have a chance to mature a little, both mind and body!

by **IlliterateKoi** Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:37 pm

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:Kaichou Koi, say Sergay were a female character instead. Mother; if you will. Would you feel any differently with Nina's relationship and feelings towards her guardian?

Nope, my thoughts on it would still be the same. As I said, my main issue with it is Nina's age, which wouldn't have changed if her guardian were female.

by **Luu Sky Sapphire** Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:09 pm

CaptainVonCookie wrote:Ohhh I completely missed this discussion! Got tricked by its title!

I don't ship any of them with him. I have to say he does look like a nice guy but trying something with an underage girl put him on my black book and I have no respect for the guy even if he stopped himself with Nina.

Had they all been of age I wouldn't have a problem with either Arika or Nina being with him. I'd still prefer them with someone else though. Age is only a number, but it needs to be consensual and kids can't give consent to adults. Dude should just wait until they have a chance to mature a little, both mind and body!

When he was younger than Nina, the dude was in love with Lena Sayers. It's shown quite a few times in flashbacks, so he indeed believes in the"Age is just a number" philosophy. Then fast forward to present day Mai-Otome Episode 1, he flirts with a random gourmet woman that appears to be more than legal:

arika - Arika and Nina's love for Sergay. Approve? Vlcsna54

arika - Arika and Nina's love for Sergay. Approve? Vlcsna54

SO WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED!? I guess you could argue that he couldn't say no to Nina's advances since she's technically not his daughter, but the cold hard fact is: SHE IS HIS DAUGHTER! :'3 Sergay x Nina shippers would have to tear down a few walls to justify the shipping, like that gay parents are not the real parents of their child, simply because nothing is biological.

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