Re: Be honest. Do you like Tomoe Marguerite?

by **ookamidesu** Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:28 am

I cannot bring myself to like her, because Tomoe being evil had nothing to do with her lack of emotional stability. You see that she is able to make well-informed decisions with a clear mind, whereas psycho Shizuru was when something in her snapped.

by Amaya Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:05 pm

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:

*laughs* More like the exaggerated ugly side of Shizuru. Call Tomoe "Shizuru on steroids" if you will. I consider her the Psycho Shizuru who isn't sorry for her actions. :)

I didn't mean that Shizuru is like Tomoe. I meant that Tomoe shows the audience that Shizuru is capable of some real bad things. I am referring to the bed scences with Tomoe and even telling Natsuki that she had fun. I found this whole scenario in Mai Otome rather strange. I was always wondering why people are so found of Shizuru Viola. I don't like her attitude at all. Getting it on with Tomoe as soon as Natsuki isn't around. Of course, she says that Tomoe could never get in her heart with such things but does that really make up for all of it. I am sure if Natsuki were to find out she would kick her ass and probably go on a hitchhike with Nao again (hopefully ;-) )

by **SpiderNeKoHiME** Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:59 am

Amaya wrote:I am sure if Natsuki were to find out she would kick her ass and probably go on a hitchhike with Nao again (hopefully ;-) )

-high fives Amaya-
hopefully ;_; nao's antics amuse me. <3

by Amaya Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:05 am

:cheers:

by **Luu Sky Sapphire** Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:35 am

Amaya wrote:I didn't mean that Shizuru is like Tomoe. I meant that Tomoe shows the audience that Shizuru is capable of some real bad things. I am referring to the bed scences with Tomoe and even telling Natsuki that she had fun. I found this whole scenario in Mai Otome rather strange. I was always wondering why people are so found of Shizuru Viola. I don't like her attitude at all. Getting it on with Tomoe as soon as Natsuki isn't around. Of course, she says that Tomoe could never get in her heart with such things but does that really make up for all of it. I am sure if Natsuki were to find out she would kick her ass and probably go on a hitchhike with Nao again (hopefully ;-) )

Oh you mean this:

Be honest. Do you like Tomoe Marguerite? - Page 4 PDVD_021

Be honest. Do you like Tomoe Marguerite? - Page 4 PDVD_022

Despite showing disinterest (or perhaps Natsuki came to mind?), Shizuru did pleasure Tomoe according to plan and seemed to have enjoyed it. :)

Be honest. Do you like Tomoe Marguerite? - Page 4 PDVD_061

Be honest. Do you like Tomoe Marguerite? - Page 4 PDVD_061

^ That says it all. Maybe we can forgive Shizuru Viola and accept her philosophy of "by any means necessary" when it comes to a sticky situation like the one Grand Duke Nagi put everyone in. It's also so convenient that when ShizuNatsu got separated, they found new temporary partners. Too bad, I kinda felt a spark between Natsuki Kruger and Juliet Nao Zhang.

by Amaya Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:03 am

@Luu Yes, me too. I liked the situation that she was paired up with Nao on the trip =)

by **Luu Sky Sapphire** Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:42 pm

Amaya wrote:@Luu Yes, me too. I liked the situation that she was paired up with Nao on the trip =)

It's those moments that must be preserved on our You Tube Channel:

Kruger/Zhang = LOVE

by **Luu Sky Sapphire** Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:35 pm

I shared this screenshot on the Mai-Multiverse Facebook group. I'm sorry, but Tomoe is a goddess in Zwei. <3

Be honest. Do you like Tomoe Marguerite? - Page 4 Tomoe_11

Be honest. Do you like Tomoe Marguerite? - Page 4 Tomoe_11

When I think of Tomoe, I try to push the diaper gimmick out of my head. THIS is what I see when I think of Tomoe. A beautiful woman who traded her pampers for a business suit.

by **Krystal of Nol** Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:16 pm

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:
When I think of Tomoe, I try to push the diaper gimmick out of my head. THIS is what I see when I think of Tomoe. A beautiful woman who traded her pampers for a business suit. ♥

Who say she hasn't diapers under that suit?

Sorry Luu, but I couldn't help it! My hands started typing before I noticed!

by **firesphere306** Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:25 pm

Let's see, to answer this question I'm going to say that I really didn't like Tomoe that well. She made me REALLY mad at times. Although, characters like her keep me entertained in shows and rip pieces of paper in half if they do something I don't like, haha.

Comparing Shizuru from mai-hime with Tomoe? I think Tomoe is a lot more talk than Shizuru was when she was in her crazy mode. Like how RedEyedWolf said, reminds me of Nao a bit too. I would have to say that Tomoe is A LOT more crazy than Shizuru was.

by **Luu Sky Sapphire** Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:16 pm

firesphere306 wrote:Let's see, to answer this question I'm going to say that I really didn't like Tomoe that well. She made me REALLY mad at times. Although, characters like her keep me entertained in shows and rip pieces of paper in half if they do something I don't like, haha.

Comparing Shizuru from mai-hime with Tomoe? I think Tomoe is a lot more talk than Shizuru was when she was in her crazy mode. Like how RedEyedWolf said, reminds me of Nao a bit too. I would have to say that Tomoe is A LOT more crazy than Shizuru was.

Well, I'd like to defend Shizuru by saying she was never crazy to begin with. Does love make one crazy? Sure, but our Kaichou was never a natural born psycho like Tomoe. Who knows the kind of upbringing Tomoe had, but whatever it was, it molded her into the batshit insane woman you see throughout Mai-Otome.

by MidnightPersona Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:23 pm

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:I kinda felt a spark between Natsuki Kruger and Juliet Nao Zhang.

Let us never speak of this again. :cough:

Two words on my thoughts for Tomoe: Dat Hair.

by **Luu Sky Sapphire** Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:37 pm

MidnightPersona wrote:
Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:I kinda felt a spark between Natsuki Kruger and Juliet Nao Zhang.

Let us never speak of this again. :cough:

Natsuki Kruger...THE Natsuki Kruger...is more of a woman than Holloway ever was. ruby

Psssss. I went there.

by MidnightPersona Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:46 pm

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:
MidnightPersona wrote:
Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:I kinda felt a spark between Natsuki Kruger and Juliet Nao Zhang.

Let us never speak of this again. :cough:

Natsuki Kruger...THE Natsuki Kruger...is more of a woman than Holloway ever was. Psssss. I went there.

Oh snap Daddy Luu. Just went from sly implications to down and dirty. O.O

<.< >.>

I am anti-NatNao anyways SOOOOOO yeah. But I suppose that adds more of a reason for it. xD

ANYWAYS! Back to Tomoe~

Dat Hair. ME GUSTA!

It makes the fetish and forced sex almost forgiveable...

who am I kidding? Zwei made sure I could hate her due to... NO ONE GOES AGAINST ARMITAGE/CHRYSANT!

by **Luu Sky Sapphire** Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:50 pm

MidnightPersona wrote:Oh snap Daddy Luu. Just went from sly implications to down and dirty. O.O

<.< >.>

I am anti-NatNao anyways SOOOOOO yeah. But I suppose that adds more of a reason for it. xD

ANYWAYS! Back to Tomoe~

Dat Hair. ME GUSTA!

It makes the fetish and forced sex almost forgiveable...

who am I kidding? Zwei made sure I could hate her due to... NO ONE GOES AGAINST ARMITAGE/CHRYSANT!

^_~ After everything that went on, one small shoot comment wouldn't hurt.

Back on topic, I wish Tomoe had a run-in with Haruka and Yukino. I think Yukino would of laid the political smackdown on Tomoe's candidacy for the presidential elections. >:3

by **ookamidesu** Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:59 pm

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:
MidnightPersona wrote:Oh snap Daddy Luu. Just went from sly implications to down and dirty. O.O

<.< >.>

I am anti-NatNao anyways SOOOOOO yeah. But I suppose that adds more of a reason for it. xD

ANYWAYS! Back to Tomoe~

Dat Hair. ME GUSTA!

It makes the fetish and forced sex almost forgiveable...

who am I kidding? Zwei made sure I could hate her due to... NO ONE GOES AGAINST ARMITAGE/CHRYSANT!

^_~ After everything that went on, one small shoot comment wouldn't hurt.

Back on topic, I wish Tomoe had a run-in with Haruka and Yukino. I think Yukino would of laid the political smackdown on Tomoe's candidacy for the presidential elections. >:3

Yukino laid the political smackdown without even trying. XD

by **she-ga-roo** Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:34 pm

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:I mean, don't moments like these...

...fill you with love? ;3 *looks at Krystal*

gah... where's the next trashbin to puke in?! :pale:

okay okay, let's be more serious...
tomoe, huh? oh well... tomoe tomoe, what should i say about you?
actually i don't really like her, cause of her wicked ways. i don't like cheater. but i wouldn't go that far to say she shouldn't have showed up in the show ever. since luu mentioned it: she really appears like a worse version of shizuru fujino. but in contrast tomoe i like fujino. the acid thing really was insane and her 'so you dont love me, then i'm going to kill you' attitude. and the way she tried to get into violas pants... well under her dress would be more fitting...
tomoe is just this type of charcter who has all that what i don't like in a person and that's good.
i like it if theres a character in a series who i can dislike because of the personality.
i just hate characters who appear just useless for the show and make no sense in my eyes.

fazit: i don't hate tomoe, i just dont like her at all Wink

by **roxas <3 Arika Yumemiya** Sat Nov 05, 2011 6:59 pm

i loved her in the manga but when i saw the show i was like the hell she a lil bitch rei burn

by **Cheshire Kat** Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:06 pm

At the start, I hated Tomoe. But then I realized, she's a very misunderstood character. People say that she's a villian, but really, she's just a confused little girl in an adult's world. The only reason she joined the Valkyries is because she wanted Shizuru to notice her, nothing else. She didn't want to betray her country, Windbloom, nor Garderobe, she merely wanted recognition.

One thing that bugs me, is that people are constantly calling Tomoe the villian. Why is she a villian? She's confused, and, obviously, not in her right mind. Remind me, was it Tomoe who took Shizuru's virginity(?) then stabbed her in the back? No.

I agree, her Manga incarnation was a lot more bearable, but Anime Tomoe deserves a chance.

by **ookamidesu** Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:49 pm

Cheshire Kat wrote:At the start, I hated Tomoe. But then I realized, she's a very misunderstood character. People say that she's a villian, but really, she's just a confused little girl in an adult's world. The only reason she joined the Valkyries is because she wanted Shizuru to notice her, nothing else. She didn't want to betray her country, Windbloom, nor Garderobe, she merely wanted recognition.

One thing that bugs me, is that people are constantly calling Tomoe the villian. Why is she a villian? She's confused, and, obviously, not in her right mind. Remind me, was it Tomoe who took Shizuru's virginity(?) then stabbed her in the back? No.

I agree, her Manga incarnation was a lot more bearable, but Anime Tomoe deserves a chance.

I wonder if that's all there is to her character. She may be confused and she may be finding a way to recognition with her wicked, wicked ways... I will give you that. But was there really any need to try to hurt Arika time and time again? And to an extent, Miya.

I will also say this though. Tomoe fell prey to her emotions much in the same way Shizuru fell prey to her emotions from HiME-verse. However, Tomoe doesn't have the partial excuse of the HiME star unstablizing her emotions. Where Shizuru went batshit insane in her last moments (declaring her as a partial villian-partial victim), Tomoe has been cold and calculating from day 1.

Also, I personally don't think she wants Shizuru's recognition. She wants Shizuru. Period. She wants her heart and body and soul.

by **Cheshire Kat** Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:23 pm

ookamidesu wrote:
Cheshire Kat wrote:At the start, I hated Tomoe. But then I realized, she's a very misunderstood character. People say that she's a villian, but really, she's just a confused little girl in an adult's world. The only reason she joined the Valkyries is because she wanted Shizuru to notice her, nothing else. She didn't want to betray her country, Windbloom, nor Garderobe, she merely wanted recognition.

One thing that bugs me, is that people are constantly calling Tomoe the villian. Why is she a villian? She's confused, and, obviously, not in her right mind. Remind me, was it Tomoe who took Shizuru's virginity(?) then stabbed her in the back? No.

I agree, her Manga incarnation was a lot more bearable, but Anime Tomoe deserves a chance.

I wonder if that's all there is to her character. She may be confused and she may be finding a way to recognition with her wicked, wicked ways... I will give you that. But was there really any need to try to hurt Arika time and time again? And to an extent, Miya.

I will also say this though. Tomoe fell prey to her emotions much in the same way Shizuru fell prey to her emotions from HiME-verse. However, Tomoe doesn't have the partial excuse of the HiME star unstablizing her emotions. Where Shizuru went batshit insane in her last moments (declaring her as a partial villian-partial victim), Tomoe has been cold and calculating from day 1.

Also, I personally don't think she wants Shizuru's recognition. She wants Shizuru. Period. She wants her heart and body and soul.

But see, that's just it. Tomoe doesn't have a back story. So I can neither justify her actions, nor look down upon them.

But from what I can tell, she obviously isn't all there. Her state of mind is less than sane, clearly; Arika was hardly involved with Shizuru, but just by speaking with the Archmeister, she became a target. Would a mentally stable person target someone who barely speaks with the apparent love of their life? Nadda.

I don't think she wants Shizuru's heart, body, and soul. I'm sticking with wanting her recognition. Tomoe was largely ignored by everyone, she wanted attention from someone, anyone. She was so determined to get praise from that one person, that she began spiralling out of control, and I think Shizuru saw that when she was taken prisoner by Tomoe. Thus, she muddled with her mind, pretending that she loved her for that short time.

I think that would drive anyone insane, personally.

Not only that, but I'm curious; why does everyone always look at the situation from Shizuru's side of the story? Why is she justified for betraying someone who needed her guidance? Because she's so popular with the fanbase? Because if she really was like Tomoe when she was younger, she'd surely have been able to help her out. Don't get me wrong, I like Viola, I really do, but this has always confused me.

by **she-ga-roo** Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:06 am

Cheshire Kat wrote:

Not only that, but I'm curious; why does everyone always look at the situation from Shizuru's side of the story? Why is she justified for betraying someone who needed her guidance? Because she's so popular with the fanbase? Because if she really was like Tomoe when she was younger, she'd surely have been able to help her out. Don't get me wrong, I like Viola, I really do, but this has always confused me.

that shizuru betrayed someone who needed her guidance like you said, could have the reason that she herself classified other things as more important (which would be natsuki), than a misguided student. in both scenes (in prison and tomoes(?) room) she asked after natsuki. okay, as a teacher this behavior of viola wasn't any good, since she really should have tried to help her students. but honestly: we're speaking of shizuru... what did you expect?

by **ookamidesu** Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:07 pm

Cheshire Kat wrote:But see, that's just it. Tomoe doesn't have a back story. So I can neither justify her actions, nor look down upon them.

But from what I can tell, she obviously isn't all there. Her state of mind is less than sane, clearly; Arika was hardly involved with Shizuru, but just by speaking with the Archmeister, she became a target. Would a mentally stable person target someone who barely speaks with the apparent love of their life? Nadda.

This makes me wonder if Garderobe perform emotional and psychological tests on their candidates for admittance. I would have assumed so, since apparently getting into Garderobe is a strict process. Therefore, the fact that Tomoe got in means that she has to at least know what a psychological sane person is supposed to think and do. And therefore, I conclude that Tomoe has the capacity to think like a mentally stable person, but at points, she chooses not to. As I recall, she does a very good job at pretending to everyone else in Garderobe. The only two people who made it apparent that they saw through her was Chie and Shizuru.

Cheshire Kat wrote:I don't think she wants Shizuru's heart, body, and soul. I'm sticking with wanting her recognition. Tomoe was largely ignored by everyone, she wanted attention from someone, anyone. She was so determined to get praise from that one person, that she began spiralling out of control, and I think Shizuru saw that when she was taken prisoner by Tomoe. Thus, she muddled with her mind, pretending that she loved her for that short time.

I think that would drive anyone insane, personally.

I concur that betrayal could drive anyone insane, but I was under the impression her insanity occurred before the betrayal.

Cheshire Kat wrote:Not only that, but I'm curious; why does everyone always look at the situation from Shizuru's side of the story? Why is she justified for betraying someone who needed her guidance? Because she's so popular with the fanbase? Because if she really was like Tomoe when she was younger, she'd surely have been able to help her out. Don't get me wrong, I like Viola, I really do, but this has always confused me.

I imagine people look at the situation from Shizuru's side of the story because she has a some semblance of a story for the audience to follow. The audience can empathize with Shizuru, but they find it harder to emphasize with Tomoe, since as you've noted, Tomoe has no back-story that we know of.

I concur that Viola should have provided some sort of guidance to Tomoe, but that line of thought would only go as far as Tomoe was still a coral in garderobe. By the time Tomoe accepted the gem from nagi, she was (in my opinion), beyond help.

by **she-ga-roo** Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:23 pm

ookamidesu wrote:
Cheshire Kat wrote:Not only that, but I'm curious; why does everyone always look at the situation from Shizuru's side of the story? Why is she justified for betraying someone who needed her guidance? Because she's so popular with the fanbase? Because if she really was like Tomoe when she was younger, she'd surely have been able to help her out. Don't get me wrong, I like Viola, I really do, but this has always confused me.

I imagine people look at the situation from Shizuru's side of the story because she has a some semblance of a story for the audience to follow. The audience can empathize with Shizuru, but they find it harder to emphasize with Tomoe, since as you've noted, Tomoe has no back-story that we know of.

I concur that Viola should have provided some sort of guidance to Tomoe, but that line of thought would only go as far as Tomoe was still a coral in garderobe. By the time Tomoe accepted the gem from nagi, she was (in my opinion), beyond help.

very well spoken, ookami! *bowes*

by **Luu Sky Sapphire** Sun Nov 06, 2011 4:31 pm

Mulan made some excellent points with her posts, so I'll just focus on Kat's overall questioning of Tomoe's character.

Cheshire Kat wrote:Not only that, but I'm curious; why does everyone always look at the situation from Shizuru's side of the story? Why is she justified for betraying someone who needed her guidance? Because she's so popular with the fanbase? Because if she really was like Tomoe when she was younger, she'd surely have been able to help her out. Don't get me wrong, I like Viola, I really do, but this has always confused me.

What I highlighted is bit difficult to argue against as Shizuru clearly said Tomoe reminded her of herself. An obvious wink-wink by Sunrise to hint at Shizuru Fujino from Mai-HiME. Like a lot of unnecessary drama, Tomoe should of dropped the vengeance and hatred of others (mainly Arika Yumemiya) to come clean. Who better else to not only mold her into a better person, but also remove these evil thoughts from her mind than Shizuru.

Then there's the other side of the fence; Shizuru Viola isn't quite innocent in the minds of many fans as she slept with Tomoe and Natsuki is none the wiser. Even now and many expect ShizNat to be a very honest relationship. It's difficult to reach common ground with characters that may have fucked up a little during their careers; but everyone deserves a second chance. In this case, we can look at these women from all angles and understand them better so whatever they did could possibly be justified in some way.

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