Put yourself in ShizNat's shoes (Mai-HiME Episode 22-23)

by **Luu Sky Sapphire** Tue Aug 24, 2010 4:57 pm

shiznat - Put yourself in ShizNat's shoes (Mai-HiME Episode 22-23) PDVD_026

Continuing our new topic discussion from the other thread. The thought of being violated by someone you trust, well, you never quite recover from that.

Or do you?

If you were Natsuki and you overheard everything Yukino said, what would be your immediate reaction? Would you curse Shizuru's name for the rest of your life? Or would you put your angst and vengeance aside and forgive her?

If you were Shizuru, how would you try to fix the situation and earn Natsuki's trust back? And don't say go on a killing spree! This is without any Reito mind-fuckingg. XDDD

The choice is yours. Discuss and I'll be back with my own 2-cents.

by Guest Tue Aug 24, 2010 4:59 pm

If I were Natsuki, Shizuru's feelings would have probably become clear before most of these things happened. However, if they didn't, and the situations happened, I would be shocked. But, I wouldn't believe anyone over Shizuru, since she would be the only I trust to tell the truth about just what happened.

by **Konaxookami** Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:51 pm

I've pondered over Natsuki's reaction of being violated by Shizuru. I've seen how she's reacted to betrayal , and how despite the fact she tries to pull off being an unemotional person-she's a very emotionally unstable person. A lot like Shizuru. She'd have a hard time recovering from that sort of violation-and though in the end she does over come it-I feel if Shizuru hadn't gone all 'psycho killing spree' the two could've worked it out, or at least gotten the misunderstandings out of the way and everyone's feelings in the air.

As for Shizuru-She got scared. She reacted badly. You can almost say she acted childishly. She blamed the two people who discovered her feelings and revealed them and punished them. She was hurt, very much so by the very quick rejection that Natsuki gave. But if she just waited and let Natsuki calm down and let it sink in, that quick and fervent denial would have been much less...denial-y and more. I think the whole situation just needed to slow down and be less desperate. If Shizuru could just grasp her control even for just a moment she could have thought it through. I think I would stuggle to gain my self control back-but I'd have to in order to grasp the situation and make things right again. If I could.

That's my view on it. xD

by **Luu Sky Sapphire** Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:55 pm

Very well said, Kona. Natsuki trusted Shizuru with every fiber of her being and was somewhat betrayed. The look on Shizuru's face says it all, she was indeed scared. The one thing she didn't expect was losing Natsuki's trust for a short time. Natsuki did want to talk things out, but that was cut short by Reito's pulling the strings on Shizuru's obsessive love and torn heart.

The best thing Natsuki ever did was forgive Shizuru. It wasn't just some empty forgiveness either, where you "forgive" the person, but decide you should never see each other again. Natsuki wanted to continue her relationship (however you, as a fan, sees it) with Shizuru for all time. When you are that close to someone you care for, why throw it all away?

by **ookamidesu** Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:15 pm

If I screwed up as bad as Shizuru did, I really have no idea how I would even start to go about fixing that. I mean, mostly, I would just take my cue from the other person and see how they react and what they think and so forth, before deciding on my course of action.

As for Natsuki, well... remember what I said about trying to look at everything objectively? I'm sure I'd freak out just as much as Natsuki, but there will be some part of me that would want to know just exactly /what/ it was that Shizuru did to me. And then there will be the /why/ she did it. I would like to hear her explanation from her lips. And then, I will be very quiet for a long time, trying to figure out what to do.

I have actually been betrayed on multiple occasions. And that [reaction] is true to me. I ALWAYS ask questions to try to understand their POV, even though I was the hurt party.

by **Natsuki** Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:37 pm

It's interesting to notice that nobody here has any doubts about what happened. I mean that what we saw on screen might have been from Natsuki's imagination. And what Yukino said (in the original version at least) doesn't tell much about what Shizuru did before :)
It's kinda off-topic lol but I didn't see another topic

So if I assume this is what happened...

I don't think I would have been able to forgive her. We might be still friends but I won't forget that.
At least if it were because of Lord Obsidian, well, I would need time to think about it but that's all.

Friendship is important to me and if the only one I trust betrays me like that then...

by **Luu Sky Sapphire** Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:42 am

Natsuki wrote:So if I assume this is what happened...

I don't think I would have been able to forgive her. We might be still friends but I won't forget that.
At least if it were because of Lord Obsidian, well, I would need time to think about it but that's all.

Friendship is important to me and if the only one I trust betrays me like that then...

Some could easily blame the Obsidian Lord for the whole mess between Shizuru and Natsuki. But in a way, maybe all he did was bring out Shizuru's inner most desires which went haywire obviously. So that part of Shizuru's actions is what she needs forgiveness for.

by Kino karutta-chan Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:28 pm

Natsuki wrote:It's interesting to notice that nobody here has any doubts about what happened. I mean that what we saw on screen might have been from Natsuki's imagination. And what Yukino said (in the original version at least) doesn't tell much about what Shizuru did before :)
It's kinda off-topic lol but I didn't see another topic

*cough*
The ones who ones, what they know (XDD), know that I had this diskussion in another thread before, but that you mention it, too, makes me happy (:

@ Topic
I am not good at imagine things like that. Don't misunderstand me, I am pretty good at imagine how other people feel, but I just can't imagine, how it would be, if I were Natsuki in this situation, since... I just can't D: Do you understand somehow?? O_O Lack on explanation here, sorry D:

by **Luu Sky Sapphire** Fri Oct 22, 2010 5:40 pm

Teresa wrote:@ Topic
I am not good at imagine things like that. Don't misunderstand me, I am pretty good at imagine how other people feel, but I just can't imagine, how it would be, if I were Natsuki in this situation, since... I just can't D: Do you understand somehow?? O_O Lack on explanation here, sorry D:

(( Some people would be able to understand as they were in similar situations. Minus the deaths (I hope...lol). In the end it's all about making mistakes and offering forgiveness for those mistakes. I should know. ))

by **Ice Silver Crystal** Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:31 pm

Maybe I can forgive Shizuru on a personal level? It's not healthy to hold grudges your whole life, very bad. My big dilemma would be forgiving her for murdering the district 1 people and the Hime childs. she wasn't sorry for doing that so it's hard to say how I would forgive her completely. ^.^;

by **Kara** Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:45 pm

If I was in Natsuki's shoes, I would totally be freaked. First of all, that was her best friend, they were undoubtably close and trusted eachother. I can tell you right now, if my best friend pulled a Shizuru, I would be...disgusted, actuallly. I probably wouldn't be her friend anymore. It's hard to imagine, but I would no longer trust her and I'd her wary around her from that point on.

Now, throwing myself in Shizuru's shoes, I would most definetly cry. Like, I would just break out into tears right there. I mean, as creepy it would be the other person, that would be something I did in private and secret, it's something that would be really emabarrasing for others ton know, let alone the person I did it to. Either that, or I would deny it profusely.

Seeing it from two different perspectives is really interesting, I've never put myself in either's shoes, I've always just looked at the big picture and thought 'well, that's freaky...let's forget that ever happened...'

by **Luu Sky Sapphire** Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:09 pm

Kara wrote:If I was in Natsuki's shoes, I would totally be freaked. First of all, that was her best friend, they were undoubtably close and trusted eachother. I can tell you right now, if my best friend pulled a Shizuru, I would be...disgusted, actuallly. I probably wouldn't be her friend anymore. It's hard to imagine, but I would no longer trust her and I'd her wary around her from that point on.

(( I pulled a Shizuru before and while I felt bad about it at the time, all it did was reward me with greater things. So in retrospect, I'm glad I did it. So it all depends on the person I guess. I have so much going for me being the outgoing type. It would of been unfortunate for Shizuru to lose Natsuki's trust forever because she does strike me as lonely. Natsuki too. Natsuki needed to forgive Shizuru because Shizuru isn't a bad person to me. Her actions were justified, just went out of control thanks to Reito. We males are evil. ;3

Hey Kara, how about this little question: https://ltahime.forumotion.com/general-shiznat-discussion-f2/is-shizuru-fujino-a-murderer-t389.htm ))

by **Kara** Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:04 pm

That is very true. But like, with all the people that adore Shizuru, you'd think she's be less lonely. She's not a BAD person, she's just...an...UN-STABLE person... lol

by **RedEyedWolf** Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:25 pm

Rei Hino wrote:
Kara wrote:If I was in Natsuki's shoes, I would totally be freaked. First of all, that was her best friend, they were undoubtably close and trusted eachother. I can tell you right now, if my best friend pulled a Shizuru, I would be...disgusted, actuallly. I probably wouldn't be her friend anymore. It's hard to imagine, but I would no longer trust her and I'd her wary around her from that point on.

(( I pulled a Shizuru before and while I felt bad about it at the time, all it did was reward me with greater things. So in retrospect, I'm glad I did it. So it all depends on the person I guess. I have so much going for me being the outgoing type. It would of been unfortunate for Shizuru to lose Natsuki's trust forever because she does strike me as lonely. Natsuki too. Natsuki needed to forgive Shizuru because Shizuru isn't a bad person to me. Her actions were justified, just went out of control thanks to Reito. We males are evil. ;3

Hey Kara, how about this little question: https://ltahime.forumotion.com/general-shiznat-discussion-f2/is-shizuru-fujino-a-murderer-t389.htm ))

so you're the one who started the war between Kara and i?!

by **Kara** Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:25 pm

Ohhh I wouldn't call it a war...more like a...lively debate! :D

by **Luu Sky Sapphire** Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:27 pm

Jo wrote:so you're the one who started the war between Kara and i?!

Kara wrote:Ohhh I wouldn't call it a war...more like a...lively debate! :D

shiznat - Put yourself in ShizNat's shoes (Mai-HiME Episode 22-23) Pdvd_037

(( Yes...a debate. Good form, Lady Kara. ))

by **SpiderNeKoHiME** Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:47 am

if i were natsuki i would forgive shizuru, only cuz it's the right thing to do.
if i were shizuru, i'd leave and forget about natsuki. there are better looking girls out there.
Nao, Akira, Midori, etc. etc.

by Kino karutta-chan Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:10 pm

SpiderNeKoHiME wrote:if i were shizuru, i'd leave and forget about natsuki. there are better looking girls out there.
Nao, Akira, Midori, etc. etc.

You are forgetting the point, that Shizuru loves Natsuki like nothing else in the world, here.

by AtlantisLux Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:47 am

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:

If you were Natsuki and you overheard everything Yukino said, what would be your immediate reaction? Would you curse Shizuru's name for the rest of your life? Or would you put your angst and vengeance aside and forgive her?

Well, while I think it's pretty clear that after the first, surprised and disgusted reaction, Natsuki's more worried about what Shizuru can do to herself and to others than what she, probably, did to her.
Me too I'm not that much impressed by that scene. I mean, yes, it could be an illusion or Shizuru could have only undressed herself to sleep close to her beloved (insert naughty thoughts here XD). What mostly scare me are Shizuru's reactions of insane jealousy, and if I were Natsuki I probably could not forgive Shizuru for chasing me around the city on a giant squid saying "If you can't be mine you can't belong to anyone else" (or something like that, I only watched the Italian subbed version and I'm trying a tentative translation).
And no, love doesn't justify this behavior. At all. Wink

If you were Shizuru, how would you try to fix the situation and earn Natsuki's trust back? And don't say go on a killing spree! This is without any Reito mind-fuckingg. XDDD

Eheh, this is the difficult part. Being myself a rather jealous girl I know it's rather difficult to put aside those thoughts and not to see every other girl as an hypothetic rival.
But Shizuru appears to be a calm and intelligent girl, quite wise for her age, and not a bad person. So I suspect she would do anything to regain Natsuki's trust. ^^

by **denerop** Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:44 am

i'd try to stay away from shizuru forever >.<
but i would do that anyway, wether that happened or not.

by **Luu Sky Sapphire** Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:30 pm

AtlantisLux wrote:"If you can't be mine you can't belong to anyone else" (or something like that, I only watched the Italian subbed version and I'm trying a tentative translation).

No, that's correct. I have three different versions, one of them being a Spanish fansub. What you said, just worded differently. lol

AtlantisLux wrote:And no, love doesn't justify this behavior. At all.

If Shizuru did not ask for forgiveness, I would strongly agree. Right now I do sympathize with her. It's a very complicated situation in the long run, only few can comprehend it. At the same time I don't blame your feelings.

by AtlantisLux Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:37 pm

Oh but I do comprehend that ^^ In fact I also think she was horrified when she realized what she did to Natsuki. Or we would have not saw Shizuru crying in Natsuki's arms when they came back to life :)
Honestly, that sentence is more for the fandom XD Because I've read too many times "oh, but what she did was completely excusable because she was in love" but, please, love and affection can't provide an exemption for harassing your beloved or being insanely jealous Wink

Shizuru realized that too! ^^

by **TeaLover** Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:46 am

Kino karutta-chan wrote:
SpiderNeKoHiME wrote:if i were shizuru, i'd leave and forget about natsuki. there are better looking girls out there.
Nao, Akira, Midori, etc. etc.
You are forgetting the point, that Shizuru loves Natsuki like nothing else in the world, here.

fufufu what SpiderNeKoHiME says is kinda true, even if I love someone and then she rejects me I can always find another girls if that only to unleash my sexual desire. But, that person you love before never leave your mind, even for one second. If you love someone you want to protect her from anything and even die for her.

It's always easier to love a girl than to forget about her.

by **Luu Sky Sapphire** Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:18 pm

I've found it easier to forget about a girl who wasn't a good person to begin with. In my current relationship, IF anything were to break us apart, it would be hard to forget her since she's the most wonderful person you could ever meet. It all depends on your lover and the kind of person she was. ^_^ In this thread's case, it would be quite difficult for Shizuru to forget about Natsuki.

by Artemis0820 Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:56 pm

Well, if I were Natsuki, I would've done the same thing. It's pretty natural for a conservative girl like Natsuki to be surprised at the actions Shizuru did. Of course, you'll also feel betrayed... somewhat being kept in the dark like that. But, you can't hold grudges forever, and it'll be pretty hard to move on life without your best friend, you'll be back to zero if you wouldn't forgive her. You also have a debt on her, her efforts for you were the ones in need of repayal. Probably I'm saying that their relationship is a give-and-take, well, no. I'm not pointing it that way but saying that if you I were Natsuki, I would've thought that "in all the efforts that Shizuru has given me, why haven't I given her something in return? how about our friendship back? how about forgiveness?" or something like that. plus, i'll be pretty curious of this, "what did she really do? why did she do such things?," that i'd like to talk to her to straighten up things. (sadly, some people aren't like that...)

and if i were Shizuru, I'll probably feel scared. scared, not knowing what to do. actually, i don't know what to do in these situations. i'm just gonna go with the flow of the conversation and think out my thoughts then.

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